Will the election increase expatrism?

sergio

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I don´t think Stan is bashing Argentina, just relating his experience here. Something I can´t understand is why some expats think Argentina is somehow morally superior to the US. Do they know anything about the history of this country? 30,000 people are said to have disdappeared during the ¨dirty war¨. Peron received military training in Nazi Germany and favored the Nazis, as did many in this country during the war. Aside from some Argentines of British descent, few people here lifted a finger to help the Allied cause. In fact Argentina was a haven for Nazis after the war. So I just don´t get it when people act as though this country is more moral. Stan is right when he talks about lack of checks and balances here. Just the other day Cristina Kirchner announced that she was using her mandate power to pay the Paris Club almost 7 billion dollars. No Congressional debate, no public debate. Same with the Bullet Train. Her husband just decreed that it is going to happen and there was no Congressional approval or public discourse. This is the way of life here and if you live here you have to accept it but saying that Argentina is somehow more ethical or moral than the US is pretty ridiculous. There are many nice things here but tyhe government is not one of them and thinking that it is better than the US is just plain crazy.
 

PK

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We would not move entirely as we have family in the United States. As to citizenship I do not plan on changing that because my fellow citizens have, I hope temporarily lost their mind. Every other country in this world has gone through this at some point (Argentina, all of Africa and South America, as well as Europe and Asia) so I will keep my citizenship because that is where my family is at, that is where I was born and that is the country that allowed me to get where I am. Not to mention that the tax issues would be so complex as to be insane.
 

kenmtraveller

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And with regards to the Dirty War here...well, yeah, that was an awful time, and I wouldn't have wanted to live in Argentina then. But, my understanding is that the Argentine government is no longer kidnapping people and torturing them. Does anyone here have evidence to the contrary? And by the way, this thread started out about whether the election would increase expatrism. I'm not sure who turned it into a debate over whether Argentina was morally superior to America, but it wasn't me.
Ken
 

Stanexpat

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Soulskier, you have been given bad info on cars, can bring them in duty free assuming you get permanent residency.
I am not knocking the country but simply relating my experiences and discussing the shortcomings of the government there which anybody can see for themselves after a month or two in the country.
Personally I see this whole discussion on whether more people will move to Argentina based on U.S. election results as silly. 99% of people that say they will move are just talking. Anybody that would actually move is either badly informed and does not know how much worse it is here or is slightly nutty or both.
You seem to say that since I no longer live there I shouldn't offer my opinions, but it's ok for folks in Argentina to bash the U.S.
Congratulations if you have found a better life than the one you left behind, I'm sure many people feel the same way. If Argentina is so great the word will spread and I'm sure many more thousands will come regardless of what I or anybody else says.
 

soulskier

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Sergio, to be perfectly honest, I don't really care about the government's morals here in Argentina. My reason for living full time in Argentina is that I am able to have a far better and superior life than I had in the US, at a fraction of the cost. Also, since there is so much less competition, I find it easier to suceed in business than in the cut throat business environment I was previously involved with in California.
My comment about Stan bashing Argentina although he no longer lives here, is not specific to this thread, but to many of his comments about the doom and gloom that Argentina is about to suffer.
If you read the title to the thread, it isn't about moral governments, its about the US election and how people might react if one party wins and the other loses.
Suerte!
 

soulskier

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Stan, perhaps I am wrong, but I don't believe it is possible to move to Argentina and receive permanent residency right away. So, it appears to me, that one's options are;
To wait until you receive permanent residency as you stated (2 or more years) and then bring your car in.
Pay the 80% tax.
 

Stanexpat

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Soulskier, the way you do is to get temporary authorization when you arrive, we drove into Argentina. You can renew the temporary authorization until you get your permanent residency after 2 years. With the permanent residency you can bring the vechicle in duty free (except major paperwork hassles, bribes, and other fees).
 

soulskier

Registered
Stan, thanks for the clarification. Sounds very Argentine, a temporary authorization and tfollowed by several renewals, they love their tramites! Suerte!
 

sergio

Registered
Soul, your answer seems honest: you are here because you can live better and there is less business competition. That's fine. The comments I made about government and the history of repression are in response to all the negative comments about the US and the apparent belief by many expats that Argentina is morally superior to the US. I did not say that the government of Argentina is disappearing people as they used to however I did comment, as Stan did, that there is a very inadequate system of checks and balances and a generally undemocratic system. It is even worse in some of the provinces which are run like feudal states. Now the theme is supposed to be whether McCain's election will result in more expats coming here. The implication is that a McCain Presidency will be some sort of fascist, undemocratic administration. If that happens it will be because the US Congress allows it. The same is true of Bush - the war in Iraq was approved by Congress. Bush can not issue mandates like the Presidents of Argentina. He has to get Congressional approval. If Americans run away from the US because of a McCain Presidency and run to Argentina they are being awfully silly. As I said, coming here like SOul because you like the lifestyle and the fact that your dollar may stretch more makes sense. Coming to find a better government makes zero sense.
 

Its_not_me

Registered
I have been tossing around moving to BA. I have been comming for the last few years on vacation and have a few porteno friends. The locals tell me that in any buisness deal there is always somone trying to rip someone else off. Its not thought of as bad, just part of the game. Turn about is fair play.
I have a funny story. My local friend and i were going to Cordoba for a few days. He left newbery on the first flight. I was to leave at 11 am. 15 minutes after he leaves aerolineas argentina goes on strike. I say screw it and do the unthinkable and rent and car to drive to Cordoba. I was scared out of my mind getting out of BA. Once i got out on the pampas it was very scenic. Then it happened. I ran into a safety checkpoint. This was a shack, on the side of the road in the middle of no where with one guy at it. He waved me down so i stopped. The guy then started speaking spanish very quickly. I asked him to slow down in spanish then he realized i was a gringo and it was on. He took me out of the car into the shack and was pointing to the chart on the wall with a bunch of fines on it. My fine was for not having my running lights on, it as 262 pesos. I just wanted out of there so i pulled out the money and slapped it down on the desk. When my hand hit the desk it hit me. There were two ticket books, neither one had ever had a ticket written out of it. When the guy saw i put 262 pesos out he was aghast. He muttered something i still to this day dont know what, took 100 pesos out of it, put it in his pocket and pushed the rest of the money back to me. After that he was speaking english and my buddie. He even showed me how to turn on the running lights in my car. Argentina is the wild wild west. That's why i want to move there for a year or two. I cant see living there long term and dealing with the govt. A year or two is almost a vacation.
I hope to be there within 2 months. I need to vote before i leave.I am not leaving due to the election. I think that no matter the outcome the empire is in decline.
 
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