Will the election increase expatrism?


Quoting "Its_not_me": ". . . . I think that no matter the outcome the empire is in decline."
I'd agree. And, who knows? Argentina may welcome more expats if Obama wins.
I agree with Sergio, too: ". . . . [C]oming here . . . because you like the lifestyle and the fact that your dollar may stretch more makes sense. Coming to find a better government makes zero sense." Even implying that the Argentine government is either morally or democratically superior to the American is foolish.


Well, I don't find it all that surprising that there are Americans in this thread who don't consider gulags and torture to be any big deal. That's pretty much why I left America. Ken


I do not believe Argentina is morally superior to the US. I do not believe the US is morally superior to many other countries. Especially after Abu Graib, Guantanamo, etc. And this comes from a person who served the US as an officer in the US Army for 6 years.

That being said I am tired of Repubican wedge politics. I will be glad to spend more time in Argentina because I do like the lifestyle and the culture. Sure it has shortcomings. Anyone who is moving there is nuts if they dont assume that. I have been to over 60 countries and they all do. Including my beloved USA.


I do not believe Argentina is some perfect paradise, or that its government is not flawed.
I love certain things about Argentina, and find other things disagreeable.
And I feel the same way about the USA- just about different things.

Buenos Aires, for example, has more well preserved, 1890's to 1930's architecture, design, and metalwork, than just about any other city in the world. I happen to be a student of this style of work, and just on that basis alone, enjoy BsAs immensely. I have travelled extensively in europe, and while Barcelona, for example, has Gaudi, Puig, and Domench i Montaner, but many of the smaller, more day to day examples of art noveau there have been torn down. Similarly, Brussels, Torino, and Milan have been endlessly remodeled and only the biggest, flashiest examples still remain.

Buenos Aires has a unique culture, which I happen to enjoy. It does not mean it is BETTER than NYC or LA, or that there is no street crime or inflation.

But as an american citizen, who owns an apartment in BsAs, I have to say that YES, I will definitely be spending more time in Argentina if McCain/Palin is elected.
I would not renounce my US citizenship. I would continue to vote, and attempt to change the USA. Due to economic realities, I would continue to work to some degree in the USA, as there is no doubt that, when it comes to making lots of money, the US is still the place to go.

But the plain truth is that the television fed, intellectually dim attitude of the US gets boring after 40 or 50 years of it, and especially if the majority of its citizens decide McCain is their man, I will be happy spending more of my time away from WalMart and McDonalds.
In BsAs, at least, its still possible to avoid EASY and Starbucks, to have an actual relationship with a real person who owns a store or restaurant.


"But the plain truth is that the television fed, intellectually dim attitude of the US gets boring..."Ries, do you think its different here? Do you know how many hours the average Porteño watches TV? I know homes where the TV never goes off - at least not until they go to bed! And have you watched TV here? Tinelli for example? It would be hard to find an equal for stupidity. I guess a different environment is stimulating just because it is different. It amazes me though that so many people here seem to have had zero intellectual stimulation in the US. Where on earth were they living? In the middle of the desert?


I just wanna say this is a great thread, and not because I started it. I will be interested to see how everyone's opinions grow and change as we approach November 4.


"Will the election increase expatrism?"

I think if OBAMA wins, then the answer will be "YES".

If McCain wins, then not so much.


Napolean - are you saying that if Obama wins, hordes of angry Republicans will pack their bags & leave the US for Argentina? jajajaja - that I would love to see! Not republican bashing but imagining a plethora of conservatives descending upon Argentina makes me howl in laughter. Tis the making of a sitcom..
I stand by my earlier statement - while lots of people will talk, the actual amount of people that will leave is probably 1/10th of 1 percent...


I am sure Porteno's watch plenty of TV.
But I live near Seattle, a city of approximately 1 million- and there are more bookstores in my neighborhood of Barrio Norte than there are in all of Seattle. And most of the bookstores in Seattle these days are Barnes and Noble type superstores, with a truly lowbrow selection.
This is repeated throughout the USA- bookstores have been closing at a rapid pace for the last ten years or more.
In Seattle, there is not a single outdoor book bazaar- I know of three in Buenos Aires, and I am sure there are more. Seattle has two magazine stands of any quality. BsAs, hundreds.

So regardless whether or not Portenos actually read more, I, personally, can find more books there. If you havent lived in the USA recently, or had kids in school there, then you might not know how many houses here have NO books, no interest in reading.
Similarly, live music, theater, poetry, performance, dance, art shows, and other cultural pursuits are all daily events in BsAs- and virtually nonexistent in many US cities outside of New York.

Americans, for example, dont read newspapers anymore- and when USA Today is your national paper, its hard to blame em. But Argentinians read lots of em.

Again, I dont think Argentina is paradise. Lots wrong with it, no doubt. But it is definitely more intellectual than most parts of the USA. Try conversing with a cab driver in the US sometime about philosophy. The Portenos I know, my friends there, are all awake, aware, and concerned about the world. Of course there are lots of vegetative people in BsAs as well- I just dont hang out with em.

I do think that the famed Porteno inferiority complex, the "Culo del Mundo" syndrome, means that a lot more Portenos actually pay attention to what goes on elsewhere in the world. I meet many who have travelled, who try extra hard to keep up with music, or art, or literature from europe or the US, because they consider BsAs to be so behind- and, in a way, they actually disprove their own theory.
Believe me, the average american has never left his or her home state, much less travelled abroad.

But back to the original question- I think a few more people may leave the USA if McCain is elected, but not really too many. Even in troubled economic times, the money in the US flows pretty freely, and most people are pretty fat and sassy.

I do see a gradual awakening among the people I know, however, more and more every year, about BsAs as a destination for travel, and a few of those travellers will stay.
The Euro and the Pound are crazily expensive against the dollar right now, and travelling in europe is beyond the reach of many americans. Hotels under 100 euros are impossible to find in most european cities, meals under $20 to $50 per person, and so Argentina seems a bargain to many of my friends. I noticed a large crowd of americans, for instance, in town for ArteBA this year- and not just clueless tourists, but art professionals who are looking seriously at the art scene in BsAs.
With increasing globalisation of culture, with the internet, Argentina is less and less an undiscovered backwater, and more and more an international player, in fashion, music, design, architecture, graffiti, art, literature, and so on, and this will lead to many more people visiting and moving.

So I see this as an ongoing trend, not a specific jump due to an election.


"citygirl" said:
Napolean - are you saying that if Obama wins, hordes of angry Republicans will pack their bags & leave the US for Argentina? jajajaja - that I would love to see! Not republican bashing but imagining a plethora of conservatives descending upon Argentina makes me howl in laughter. Tis the making of a sitcom
They already do come down. In hordes. Most stop in Recoleta for a while to go shopping, before going to Bariloche, Mendoza, and Patagonia to kill things (hunting and fishing). When you see a group of 5-8 chubby white guys speaking English near the Recoleta cemetery and 1 or 2 is wearing a camoflauge jacket & hat, you get a strong feeling that they aren't big Obama backers.
A stop at the Alvaer Palace, a trip over to BLACK, and then they are out of this city to the places mentioned above or Carilo, Pampas del Mar (?), or any other city where they can live like royalty for a fraction of the cost as they wait out the socialism they fear will be coming.
Plus, these are the people who can afford to travel here in the first place. Not all of the Red Staters, but many.