6,337 New Covid-19 Infections 7/30, Extended Quarantine..?

sts7049

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The only justification of a lockdown was to give the state some time to ramp up the capabilities needed to fight this - capabilities that bajo, of all people, had argued that Argentina had in superior measure to the US. As a way of freezing time until it goes away? Yeah, that might not turn out too great.
this. i remember bajo claiming exactly that. everyone else in the world has realized you can't quarantine your way out of this virus. and yet after coming up on 5 months of this quarantine, argentina is one of the last trying to proclaim they still have control. they are no better off than any other country, just delaying the inevitable, except now with an economic debacle.
 

on the brink

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The quarantine keeps being extended because no one knows what else to do.

It was supposed to be to "flatten the curve". Does anyone know what the intensive care bed occupancy rate is? I haven't seen any numbers.
 

antipodean

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The quarantine keeps being extended because no one knows what else to do.

It was supposed to be to "flatten the curve". Does anyone know what the intensive care bed occupancy rate is? I haven't seen any numbers.
It’s steady between 50-60%.
Also over the past 2 weeks the “R” rate in CABA is steady at 1.03 (this is the amount of other persons traced to each confirmed case, once it gets below 1 it is more manageable and easier to isolate / localize like we saw in Germany. This is the target to “normalize” life significantly more than today in CABA.)
 

Bajo_cero2

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this. i remember bajo claiming exactly that. everyone else in the world has realized you can't quarantine your way out of this virus. and yet after coming up on 5 months of this quarantine, argentina is one of the last trying to proclaim they still have control. they are no better off than any other country, just delaying the inevitable, except now with an economic debacle.
I don´t understand you.
Nobody even claimed that quarantine was the cure, it was all about to delay the peak.
 

jblaze5779

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This is a classic argentina throw your hands up "it's complicated". There is much more people could being doing but it's complicated so you might as well keep everyone locked up.

Why didn't they move the air traffic to Córdoba a while ago? I said this to my wife 3 months ago. Instead of finding solutions to issues it's just "it's complicated". They have one hub in the entire country and it's in the only part of the country with a "real" issue. Switch shit to the other international Airport and keep taking precautions.
 

ben

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I don´t understand you.
Nobody even claimed that quarantine was the cure, it was all about to delay the peak.
Well, why wasn’t it used as the cure? It should be simple, right? Lock everyone up at home until they are no longer infectious, and you’re done, right?

Well, turns out that that doesn’t work. People need to buy food. Other people need to make that food. Other people need to pay the first group, so they can afford to buy food, since last I checked nobody was giving food away for free. Same for rent. Same for medications. Same for everything. People need money.

(I’ll say the above in a way you might understand: trabajadores need money.)

That’s why most developed countries - with the notable exception of the US, whose leader decided it would benefit him politically to have both the national government as well as media loyal to him pretend the virus did not exist or pose a major threat - went to work right away on engineering a return to normalcy (or some sort thereof) as quickly as possible. This consisted of developing protocols regarding masking and distancing, and robust testing and tracing regimes so they could contain small outbreaks quickly. Most serious countries got this done quickly enough to be able to reopen their economies by May. Argentina does not seem to have even bothered to try.

Argentina’s leaders know this as well as anyone. How do I know this? Because they make sure to lie about it; people usually only lie about something when they know the truth is bad. Axel Kicilloff is spreading rumors of a Spanish quarantine - that Spain’s embassy must then refute - precisely because an honest comparison would not be favorable.

And at the end, Argentina will have reopened, as it must - people will simply openly defy the quarantine in any event - precisely when the number of cases has begun to shoot upwards. Far higher, by the way, than the confirmed numbers: if you check the amount of confirmed cases as a percentage of tests, Argentina’s case count is wildly higher as a % than that of developed countries - a pretty sure sign that Argentina is seriously undercounting cases. (This might, incidentally, undercut the above post regarding overcounting hospitalizations, unless it refers specifically to hospitalizations and not cases; interesting to see hospitalizations as a percentage of confirmed cases).

So, coming back to your quote: if the point was “all about to delay the peak” until mitigation measures could be taken, yes that was the point.
To delay it for 5 months, wrecking the national economy in the process, only to start back at square one 5 months later? Not really.
 

antipodean

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https://www.infobae.com/politica/2020/08/03/constitucionalistas-sostienen-que-el-dnu-que-prohibe-las-reuniones-sociales-por-el-coronavirus-viola-el-derecho-a-la-intimidad/

Meanwhile the government is under fire for the unconstitutional presidential decree that punishes meeting with other people including family members, even in ones own home, with up to two years imprisonment. Yes you read that right, you let someone into your home and you are liable to go to jail for two years at the request of President / General Alberto Fernandez.

Amazing that under the leadership of a supposedly freedom pushing, anti-dictatorship regime we have ended up in some kind of democratic dictatorship, with broader and more severe restrictions on personal liberties than even China during this crisis.

For those of us who did not know already, now we know what it feels like to live under a pretty extreme dictatorship where the most basic rights and freedoms can be denied - the only "missing" element of the experience is censorship... but some in the government and their "para-militancies" are already working on that it seems in past months.

Methinks that the first prosecutions for violating this decree will unleash a real shit storm against the oppressors given the other incursions on the basic rights of Argentines in the past months. You never come between an Argentine and their family or friends!

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"But now privacy breaches come on the scene.What is being restricted is the right to privacy, that is, what can or cannot be done within your own home. They are coming to get us in our homes, ”warned the specialist. He also warned that the government with all these quarantine extension decrees is incurring in a normative custom that worries in the post-quarantine stage because it is giving itself powers to get to a high level in regulatory matters. "I think that is typical of the DNA of populist governments. Populist governments do not believe much in individual freedoms and responsibilities, "said Lonigro.

For his part, the constitutional lawyer Daniel Sabsay questioned the rule, pointing out that it is not possible to legislate in criminal matters through decrees of necessity and urgency. "You cannot say that this is similar to something else and assign it to a crime in the Penal Code, which is what is being done here: a crime was created and associated with article 205," said Sabsay. "The President legislates by decree in criminal matters even though the Constitution prohibits it. Social and family gatherings are assimilated to crimes against health. It violates the principle of typicity and creates crimes by analogy, "said Sabsay.
 
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Renzi

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Amazing that under the leadership of a supposedly freedom pushing, anti-dictatorship regime we have ended up in some kind of democratic dictatorship, with broader and more severe restrictions on personal liberties than even China during this crisis. [...]

For those of us who did not know already, now we know what it feels like to live under a pretty extreme dictatorship where the most basic rights and freedoms can be denied - the only "missing" element of the experience is censorship... but some in the government and their "para-militancies" are already working on that it seems in past months.
Dictatorship? You're getting a little (or a lot) carried away. No state of emergency has been declared. The prohibition is for gatherings of 10 people/family members or more according to Clarín, which is not unreasonable. Also, 2 out of the 3 national papers are sympathetic to the opposition. The other day I was sitting on a park bench in Belgrano and a nice police officer explained to me why I can't sit there and asked me to move along. In the US the cop would have tasered me on the spot (I am a person of color, after all).

The current government has its faults, but please, do not compare Argentina with China. Even Videla didn't come close to disappearing as many people as China has in just the last two years alone.
 

Iznogud

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antipodean, you can't be serious comparing these stupid and poor clueless measures to living under real autoritarism.

Either you have absolutely no idea how autoritarism feels like or you also need some serious clues.

Compared to the 70s this is a rave.

With all due respect.
 
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