90 day visa

[AlexfromLA]

Yeah. I had to laugh at " Palermo will fall ". Let's look at the definition of a permatourist : Someone who isn't a student, isn't a tax paying worker, someone who hasn't invested in the country, someone who has no family ties here, someone who cannot prove they have the minimum income requirements to support themselves here etc. Yeah big loss. .

And as we hear throughout this forum, many of these " permatourists " are poor or working local jobs illegally, and earning local salaries and not paying taxes on them. The average permatourist doesn't own property, vehicles, doesn't have a business, doesn't pay rentas, income tax, property tax etc.

The ones that do have money will qualify for at least one of two specific categories made for people who have at least some minimal income ie rentista or inversionista.

The new decree sucks but with all the anti-immigration stuff going on in the Western world, I can't say I blame them.

Me neither. I imagine South Americans being harassed in the US or Europe, while Europeans and Americans come and flout South American law. Nah eff that.

Sometimes people don't really see injustice until it is visited upon them. In life there will always come a time when the shoe will be on the other foot. Lesson learned, I hope.

 

[AlexfromLA]

" you lost a good thing baby ". Lol, sounds like a slighted lover to me.

I think Argentina will survive. If anything they will weed out the dregs. Those who can prove $ 2000 usd ( which lets be real, for an american is lower middle class at best ) in monthly income will stay, those who are willing to make a financial commitment to the country will stay.

Those self important ones with very little money and a healthy disregard for the laws of the country, will be asked to leave or find a way to stay legally.

No need to be angry, just let go, it's for the best, you'll find some place else.

new restrictions are going to hurt Argentina more than anything. There was a boom of construction over the past few years, and now you see a lot of half-built skyrises or other buildings that sit empty. Also I've seen noticable degredations along side the swelling inflation (a lot more homeless on the street in my neighborhood in just the last two months!) that don't bode well--not that this is directly related to the permatourist, just an indication of the state of Argentina (or Capital, at least) in general.

 

[LAtoBA]

The problem with real estate, like most other assets, is that it is the marginal buyer or seller who sets the price for the entire inventory. You can look that concept up in an economics textbook if you don't understand it.

Thanks Gunt but I already studied economics in grad school and I am aware of the term. All "snideness" aside of course.

 

[AlexfromLA]

Thank you for some honesty and not some hysterical " Palermo will burn if they ask me to respect their immigration laws " type of comment.

Oh, and if it is "perma-tourists" propping up Palermo then well, it must not be that nice? Do you really think a couple, let's be generous and say thousand Skidmore/Lehigh/UCSB college grads living off their "graduation money" is keeping Palermo afloat. I would bet most expats with money and I mean "economy moving discretionary income money" are here working, have investments in property here, or have found a way to qualify (trusts, 401Ks) for visas and not "permatourists".

 

[MizzMarr]

"

I think Argentina will survive. If anything they will weed out the dregs. Those who can prove $ 2000 usd ( which lets be real, for an american is lower middle class at best ) in monthly income a month will stay, those who are willing to make a financial commitment to the country will stay.


No need to be angry, just let go, it's for the best, you'll find some place else.

I have my visa, thanks.

However, getting the visa doesn't have anything to do with earning 2k monthly in salary. The rentista visa requires $2k a month in passive income--salary expressly does not count. You could make $5-10k a month or more, but unless that income is tied to investments and independent of "salary" it won't qualify.

As I understand it, in Europe (Germany, anyway) all you have to do is prove that you have sufficient savings as not to be a burden on society. There are lots of people here who don't have $2k a month in passive income but who are anything but burdening the society here, and still they're being penalized. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Let's face it--can Argentina really afford to be a picky regarding immigrants as the US or European countries (not to mention that this has no bearing on the Mercosur countries, so we're talking immigrants from first world countries), or is this more of a pride and vindication issue?

ETA: HERE 2k usd salary is a pretty good wage. The locals don't make nearly as much, on average.

 

[steveinbsas]

I'm confident we will soon hear from Perry about the insignificance of foreign buyers on the BA real estate market. I sold my apt in Recoleta in 2009 and my PH in Belgrano in 2010. Perry was my agent and both properties sold in less than 60 days to Argentines. Not one foreigner looked at my Recoleta property and only two from the USA looked at the PH.

Argentines (with money belts full of dollars) who want to live in Palermo will snap up any bargains as fast as they become available. I've only been out of CF for two months and don't remember seeing any construction projects in Palermo where the work had stopped and I was looking everyday for the past two years.

Any foreigner who bought an apartment in Palermo between 2002 and 2006 should realize a handsome profit. That probably wouldn't be the case if they bought property in the US at the same time and wanted to sell today. Even if they bought in the last two years they should still see a "decent" return on their investment. In any case I don't think the market is suddenly going to be flooded with apartments for sale by the permatourists.

 

[dennisr]

Permatourists:
Right or wrong, something will be lost with the cosmopolitan atmosphere of Buenos Aires when the extended tourist visa plan is terminated. It will not be the same. Have met quite a few so called "permatourist" from all over this Planet and have always enjoyed their company and conversations. Especially the youngens. It is too bad this avenue for adventure will be lost, especially for the younger generation.
One very old retired Hippie.

Sign, sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this don't do that can't you read the sign?
Sign, sign everywhere a sign
Sign, sign

 

[LAtoBA]

I have my visa, thanks.

However, getting the visa doesn't have anything to do with earning 2k monthly in salary. The rentista visa requires $2k a month in passive income--salary expressly does not count. You could make $5-10k a month or more, but unless that income is tied to investments and independent of "salary" it won't qualify.

Wasn't there a debate about this in another thread? I believe an Argentine lawyer was stating that this was not correct and that income of 2k a month was sufficient to obtain a rentista visa.

Can someone verify this and correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[MizzMarr]

Wasn't there a debate about this in another thread? I believe an Argentine lawyer was stating that this was not correct and that income of 2k a month was sufficient to obtain a rentista visa.

Can someone verify this and correct me if I'm wrong?

I just went through this process. The income *cannot* be tied to salary. "Income" must come from investments, interest on investments, profits from ownership in a company, etc., but cannot be tied directly to salary. The rationale behind this is that salary is tied to a job which could end at any time, whereas these other avenues of income are not nearly as precarious.

 

[gunt86]

Any foreigner who bought an apartment in Palermo between 2002 and 2006 should realize a handsome profit.

Not true! I know it seems like it should be true, but I have a close personal friend for whom this exact situation was a money loser!! He bought for 85k in 2005, sold for 115k in 2010. Between the repairs he had to put into it (just regular maintenance) and the taxes when he sold (rental income taxes, etc), he actually lost a few thousand on the deal! If you consider the carrying cost of the capital at risk as well, then he lost even more. Add in all the headaches from the sleazy management companies who stole from him at every opportunity, and it was all a bad idea.

That being said i have other friends who did make money; like bought for 250k and sold for 600k over a couple of years period. But it is all really just a matter of luck and timing.
Anyways, already by 2010 prices in Palermo are down 10-15% from peak. Data from a number of real estate agents. And also personal experience for friends' sales.