90 day visa

[citygirl]

I will say that a large number of permatourists I know are those who work remotely (usually US) or are on sabattical/etc and earn a decent salary or have a decent amount of savings but wouldn't qualify for any type of visa. I would imagine they will indeed leave if there is a significant change. I doubt many would be excited about paying that 35% income tax here! However, I don't think it will have any real impact on the economy here.

I'll be curious to see what the poster who didn't get the renewal has to say when he reports back after talking to migraciones today.

It seems as though the vast majority of posters who are perma-tourists haven't had any problems (4 or 5 cases here out of 1000s that are living that way, and some of those from new posters who just vanished afterwards). Maybe there will be a widespread change, maybe not. I would guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[steveinbsas]

Wasn't there a debate about this in another thread? I believe an Argentine lawyer was stating that this was not correct and that income of 2k a month was sufficient to obtain a rentista visa.

Can someone verify this and correct me if I'm wrong?

Yes, he said that, but he is the only one I've ever heard say it. As far as I know, the income must be passsive: from investments or a trust and cannot be a salary that is paid by a foreign company to the visa holder while the visa holder is living in Argentina. Profit sharing and dividends (from partnerships and corporations) are acceptable sources of "passive" income (also as far as I know).

 

[AlexfromLA]

First of all they aren't being penalized. They are breaking immigration law, and if they are working here " under the table " ie illegally, they are also committing tax evasion, a federal crime.

So why is the government putting a stop to this ? Because it is their job to do so.

Would you advocate breaking US Federal tax law ? Would you advocate breaking US immigration law ? I'm guessing you're not a criminal so I will have to guess no. Well just because this is South America doesn't mean US citizens can disrespect and disregard the people here and their laws.

And if the law is so great in Germany, maybe that's where the " permatourists " will go next. I am sure that will bring Germany a boom of epic proportions right ? I won't hold my breath.

As I understand it, in Europe (Germany, anyway) all you have to do is prove that you have sufficient savings as not to be a burden on society. There are lots of people here who don't have $2k a month in passive income but who are anything but burdening the society here, and still they're being penalized.

Wow are you serious ? Argentina has the right to enforce it's own laws and Constitution just like any country. They don't have to bow to you. This is borderline insulting.

Mercosur and Unasur have signed reciprocal agreements and accords. That means, " We will treat yours as we would like you to treat ours ". This is a deep brotherly bond between nations.

Is the US and EU willing to do the same ? Or do they feel their own citizens are somehow better as your post insinuates ?

Let's face it--can Argentina really afford to be a picky regarding immigrants as the US or European countries (not to mention that this has no bearing on the Mercosur countries, so we're talking immigrants from first world countries)

 

[AlexfromLA]

They could set up a trust if they have savings. Rentista.

They could take their savings and invest in the country. Inversionista

Mizzmar said Germany was a good second option.

I will say that a large number of permatourists I know are those who work remotely (usually US) or are on sabattical/etc and earn a decent salary or have a decent amount of savings but wouldn't qualify for any type of visa.

 

[citygirl]

Wellllllll... the question always has been if it's breaking the law. There certainly was a very big loophole for a long time since there is no time limit to be in the country provided someone leaves after 6 months. That's always been the case - right or wrong, the loophole did exist and people used it. And certainly migraciones was aware of it and didn't care - perhaps that is changing though. And if that's the case, it would be very simple to close it and put in a maximum stay per year.

As far as tax evasion - lol, that's hardly unique to permatourists! With a huge portion of the local workforce employed en negro by local companies and a huge portion of people that evade taxes, I don't think we can single out the permatourists as the only bad apples in the bunch. Not condoning it by the way, just pointing it out.

It's always been an interesting issue for me - how do you fix the tax issue? The burden is so high that people/businesses find ways around it b/c otherwise, they couldn't afford to be in business. Do you lower the tax rate and try to enforce the laws to make more people/companies pay? Or do you leave it as is and know that a huge amount will evade it, leaving those who do pay left "holding the bag" if you will. I don't know how one could ever fix it...

 

[steveinbsas]

It's always been an interesting issue for me - how do you fix the tax issue? The burden is so high that people/businesses find ways around it b/c otherwise, they couldn't afford to be in business. Do you lower the tax rate and try to enforce the laws to make more people/companies pay? Or do you leave it as is and know that a huge amount will evade it, leaving those who do pay left "holding the bag" if you will. I don't know how one could ever fix it...

While it's true that few permatoursists (if any) are paying taxes on their income, many of the foreigners who are living here legally (as temporary residents) haven't been paying either. That could soon change for some of them. The foreigners who qualify for the visa rentista now have to "prove" $8000 pesos per month stable foreign income. They will also have to declare the source of the income. This will provide AFIP with something very much en blanco to tax if they decide to go after it.

 

[sesamosinsal]

From this article:

"In 2007, the arrival of tourists to the country grew by 15%, reaching 2.2 million visitors, the majority of which came from Brazil, United States, Chile, Spain and Italy, according to the official statistics."

2.2 million visitors... in a country of 35 million people. How many of those 2.2 million people are working? I'd say next to none of them. I think you could be generous and say 500,000, perhaps.

It makes no sense to hunt down less than 2 million people for tax evasion. Then again, we're in Argentina, and not a lot ever makes sense.

I think that if things are becoming stricter, it's an overall response to the growing problem of undocumented workers; obviously, more than 2.2 million are crossing Argentina's borders. Perhaps they're increasing border security, as well as enforcing new or other unenforced regulations.

 

[steveinbsas]

From this article:



It makes no sense to hunt down less than 2 million people for tax evasion. Then again, we're in Argentina, and not a lot ever makes sense.

Tourists are not subject to taxation in Argentina (except for the entry and exit fees and IVA (etc) they pay.

I'll bet the number of foreigners who have the visa rentista is very small compared to the number of tourists, but they are worth going after and there is no need to hunt them down (they must submit proof of their income to migraciones and migraciones could share that information with AFIP).

Just look how aggressive AFIP is when a foreigner without temporary residency wants to sell their apartment. I'll bet that number is relatively small compared to the number of foreigners who have the visa rentista and are living here more than six months per year.

 

[sesamosinsal]

As far as tax evasion - lol, that's hardly unique to permatourists! With a huge portion of the local workforce employed en negro by local companies and a huge portion of people that evade taxes, I don't think we can single out the permatourists as the only bad apples in the bunch. Not condoning it by the way, just pointing it out.

Right. There's tax evasion EVERYWHERE. Florida, Santa Fe, the Costanera, etc., etc. If this government were really worried about catching people from evading taxes on the 800-3000 pesos they're making per month, it wouldn't be difficult. They have bigger fish to fry.

 

[steveinbsas]

Right. There's tax evasion EVERYWHERE. Florida, Santa Fe, the Costanera, etc., etc. If this government was really worried about catching people from evading taxes on the 800-3000 pesos they're making per month, it wouldn't be difficult. They have bigger fish to fry.

Yes, and foreigners living in Argentina with the visa rentista and declaring $8000 pesos per month income are now big enough to catch...and fry. If you're a foreigner from a non Mersocur country you just might have to pay taxes to live in Argentina legally.