90 day visa

[MizzMarr]

Argentina has the right to enforce it's own laws and Constitution just like any country. They don't have to bow to you. This is borderline insulting.

It's certainly Argentina's right to do anything they see fit. Whether or not the new changes to "permatourism" or other means of immigration negatively or positively affects the country will have to bear out. There's a lot of talk of law abiding, but if you've spent any time here you'll know that tax evasion, illegal workers, undeclared wages, etc., happens constantly from all sides (as Citygirl and others mentioned). I highly doubt that these new laws have as much to do with wanting to protect their immigration laws as much as they are motivated to take a slice of money they can smell but can't yet touch. Yes, it's their right to do so, but it will remain to be seen as to whether it benefits the country or not. I would think that they would clean up from the inside out, but again that's their prerogative. It would definitely be a lot more trouble, and who knows if that's even achievable. I know when Macri tried to enforce a minimum of a high school education to become a police officer there were riots of opposition.

Or do they feel their own citizens are somehow better as your posts insinuates ?

I didn't mean to insinuate that one group of citizens is better than another. I certainly don't feel that way. I just don't see Argentina doing a lot to help itself--maybe the country is making a genuine effort that I'm not recognizing. From where I stand I don't really see much more in it than money lust (or frying the bigger fish, as Steve and Bradley just put it).

My comment about first world foreigners largely referred to the fact that most expats (not backpackers) living here from 1st world countries are educated, motivated, have a good work ethic and have money to spend in the economy. If the government made it easier to start companies, get money into the country, give existing local companies work visas for foreign employees, etc., maybe there would be less of a general aversion to doing things "by the book" or even "in the white". It's certainly their right to run it as they want. In this case, Argentina is certainly excercising their right to further discriminate about how they want non-Mercosur tourists/expats to spend their money and how much is enough. It is a double standard, but it's one that most likely has roots in reciprocity. All criticisms aside, I personally would like to see Argentina succeed. I will have to wait see what happens, but am not going to hold my breath.

On the note of the "deep brotherly love" you mention of fellow nations... in theory that's true, but in practice that unfortunately hasn't manifested much in the conversations I've been privy to regarding how Argentines view their fellow Bolivians, Peruvians, etc. However, that's another topic entirely.

 

[citygirl]

Nor would it be hard to catch all the employers who are paying en negro. But there doesn't seem to be a huge impetus to do that either. So those of us who pay our employees 100% en blanco are the foolish few

It is a serious issue though, all joking aside. I've had a lot of friends with businesses say they flat out can't afford to pay their employees en blanco with the tax burden. And if they were forced to do so, they would simply have to either close up shop or get rid of quite a few employees. Which obviously would have economic repercussions if that is true of most small businesses.

Off the top of my head, I don't know the amount but I want to say it's something like 40% of employees work in negro. Which is a lot of lost tax revenue (from employee and employer alike).

 

[AlexfromLA]

People just put their head in the sand and feigned ignorance. Educated people know they can't permanently live in a country on a tourist visa. Many times people posted facts here. And the reply was the same " I don't believe migraciones, " or " it's vague ", or " they do say 180 days, but they dont say per year ". Or worse, the posters were attacked. It's a tourist visa, let's be real. Even when a lawyer working for migraciones logged on here and explained things clearly to everyone, there were still " doubters ".

Even now that the law is clearly defined AND the enforcement part is going into effect, the permaturists are still here. If the issue was not knowing, why are they still here ?

I'm not a dumb cookie, but I know when people are playing dumb to benefit themselves.

Lets not be cynics. We are all intelligent people. We know there are different visas for different purposes. If someone chose to willfully disregard the spirit of the law and abuse the leniency of the country it belongs to that's fine. But let's be up front about it.

If anyone here is on a tourist visa it is because they are here as tourists for a short period of time. If they are using the guise of tourism to live in the country illegally, they are misusing the visa as the law states and they need to apply for the proper visa.

---------
And as far as tax evasion, criminals are criminals. If you live in this country permanently, you should be paying taxes here. Everybody knows that. Who cares if others break the law, does that make it right ? Is that the argument ? " well people in santa fe are criminals, so why does the government care if im a tax evading criminal ?" Is anyone seriously thinking like that ?

People wouldn't live in the US and not pay taxes. This is not the wild west. Respect the country, it's people, it's laws, its government. Or kindly leave.

Oh well, it is what it is. Alot of these illegals will be nicely deported with their last 10 day stamp. Others will find a way to get residency. It is what it is.

I honestly had no idea this forum was full of illegal aliens before I joined. I had never even heard the term permatourist before. This has been quite an eye opening experience into the entitlement that so many US citizens feel even in someone elses country.

That they think it's okay to break the laws that they wouldn't break in their own country. Wow.

Just wow.

Aight. I'll see the ones who survived the purge when I get back.

CIAO.


And for the record " permatourism " doesn't exist. It is a made up term used by illegal aliens to feel slightly better about what they are doing.

There are tourists and temporary residents and permanent residents, that is all the countries law recognizes. Everybody else is illegal " alien or immigrant " ( depending on whether youre a republican or democrat ).

 

[rockinkaj]

I'll be curious to see what the poster who didn't get the renewal has to say when he reports back after talking to migraciones today.

So Ya!! I guess that's that, conclusion? The problem was as mentioned above by AlexfromLA and other members, The "Ultima Prorroga" written in my passport. Which unfortunately I did not see... But I think worst of all, is the fact that they did not say anything or at least explain to me at immigration at the time of my visa renewal on May 27th, like.. "look this is your last visa so try to apply for a resident visa if planning to stay in Argentina permanently" I personally am not working in Argentina at the moment but rather I am living with my fiance whom is of coarse an employed Argentinian. We were considering marriage of coarse at some point but unfortunately sad to say not this way or at least not this fast. ha ha!! But yes the worst of alll is now even if we tried to marry we do not have the time with the paper work....So I really do not like the idea of me having to return to Canada for 6 months and reenter Argentina... By the way dennisr.. I contacted the lawyer you mentioned Christian Rubilar
4371-3727
15-3296-6149
[email protected] But he was in other words saying go to court.. But I really do not like that option being a win or lose situation and if I lose I might be denide entry to Argentina permanently... so not an option...But thank you anyway for the info, very much appreciated. and thank you to all members for useful information. Any sugestions would be appreciated. regards Kathleen...

 

[dennisr]

Sure you are heartbroken. In the scheme of things, six months aint shit. There will be a silver lining in all of this somewhere. Keep in touch and take care,

 

[gunt86]

The problem was as mentioned above by AlexfromLA and other members, The "Ultima Prorroga" written in my passport.

If you are pretty certain marriage is in the future, then just overstay your visa. Upon marriage, apply for permanent residency in Argentina. Your overstay will not be an issue at that point.
Also your husband to be can apply for Canadian permanent residency.

 

[rockinkaj]

If you are pretty certain marriage is in the future, then just overstay your visa. Upon marriage, apply for permanent residency in Argentina. Your overstay will not be an issue at that point.
Also your husband to be can apply for Canadian permanent residency.

Yes But my visa is expired on the 27th of August. So at this point will I not be illegal... how would I be able to start marriage proceedings at this point being illegal...

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Hello, I am the Lawyer who posted the new decreto.

The fact is that the new decreto offers two possible solutions. To deny the entry or to give you an ultimatum to regularize your immigrant status.

But to give you a few days staying is arbitrary (illegal).

As I said before DO NOT GO TO COLONIA ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!! Stay illegally.

I have beed studying precedents of the last hundred years and I believe that citizenship is the solution even in those cases where you were going to Colonia.

The solution is to take your cases to Court, this is not the US, a legal process is affordable.

I have already posted all the general information about the new decreto and why citizenship is the solution but I cannot post my expertize.


I suggest that if someone has a particular query call me to the office or mail me for an appointment.


Christian Rubilar
4371-3727
15-3296-6249
[email protected]

Regards

 

[gunt86]

Yes But my visa is expired on the 27th of August. So at this point will I not be illegal... how would I be able to start marriage proceedings at this point being illegal...

I have never married in Argentina, so i don't know the exact process. However, i would highly doubt that you will be requested to show that you are in the country legally. Lots of Bolivianos get married while illegal. The only time your illegal status will come up is if you exit the country or are arrested.

 

[sesamosinsal]

Lets not be cynics. We are all intelligent people. We know there are different visas for different purposes. If someone chose to willfully disregard the spirit of the law and abuse the leniency of the country it belongs to that's fine. But let's be up front about it.

If anyone here is on a tourist visa it is because they are here as tourists for a short period of time. If they are using the guise of tourism to live in the country illegally, they are misusing the visa as the law states and they need to apply for the proper visa.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of visa do you have?

I don't advocate breaking the laws here. However, I think it's Argentina's responsibility to enforce its laws. If they wanted to make it clear to foreigners that there is a 180 day limit, they'd write that on the entry card or the visa itself, like Brazil for example.

On a Brazilian visa, it clearly says, "No foreign national can stay in Brazil for more than 180 days within a period of 12 months." If Argentina is serious about enforcing the 180 day rule -- if it exists -- then they should stamp it on the visas.

Furthermore, the Argentine consulate/embassy in the United States doesn't even advocate applying for the "proper visa." If you come here as a student, you don't apply for the student visa in the United States. You come here as a tourist, and then you do your paperwork here. So, are you going to say that all students are here illegally, and they should insist on getting the student visa before coming to Argentina?

I love the fact that you want to run around being the morality police, but the fact is laws are as good as the people who enforce them. I don't think three people who've encountered problems at immigration represent a massive policy change at the DNM.

Let's not forget that tourism in 2007 brought in more dollars than many exports, even Argentina's precious beef. I'm sure a bit has changed because of the crisis, but not much. For that reason, I don't foresee the government's position changing drastically anytime soon.