Achieving Fluency In Castellano (Esp. Comprehension)

[DCexpatstudent]

Enroll in a degree at a university and after taking classes for like two months and you will be perfect

 

[Girino]

The most off-putting thing is that they are so playful with words. Often they merge them, or switch the last half of the word with the first half, cut -s here and there so that some words sounds alike but don't make sense in a given context, or they add redundant tiny particles such as "ti, mi, le".
I came to the conclusion that:

1. In general, they speak very differently from the Argentinian Spanish you can read in a book.
   
2. What makes the slang more inaccessible is the lack of written resources, such as an Argentinian Urbandictionary.
   
3. In the press they often make mistakes in writing words or picking the correct verbs, this add up to the confusion.
   
4. The Spanish spoken here is somewhat different than elsewhere, but it is undocumented (at least in books for foreigners).
   
5. They don't seem to be concerned with this contamination, indeed they like to feel different from the rest of the Latin community, so that these variants are indeed welcome as a sign of Argentineness. Nobody cares of what la Real Academia says, often they don't even know there is a different word which is used by the rest of the Spanish speakers (for example frutilla (ARG) - fresa (ESP) for strawberry).

I cannot even give some example because I am not fluent, but it takes years to gain that level of confidence with a language at the point that you can play with it and do crosswords.

 

[mc kenna]

Reading books and radio listening is key to have a solid base,but don't expect to find that type of castellano in everyday interactions or as Rich one mentioned'' asado spanish'' or '' fudbol conversations''
For my friend Serafina, a quick way to learn slang is cut somebody off in traffic and listen to what they say..... i bet you will never hear...... Ostia!! vete al demonio!! lol or engage in a conversation with the verdulero but the best ones by far are the carniceros!!and there you'll hear the the classics...... petacularr, or una chichura,, pipi cucu,joya or joyita. and many many more and also the ones that come up with the best unwritten terminology are mechanics lol for instance you buy an original replacement part for your car which is good quality and you ask if it's gonna last to their answer...... nooo esto e' lomo del medio eh( meaning the best quality)or when a job is well done sometimes they like to use the ......te quedo un trabajo.... made in..... (meaning made in somewhere else is good or superior)but don't say it in english hahaah made in just as they say it here
The first time i heard that i almost asked made in..... where?? and the saying is just that
''made in'' lol find that in a book :lol:

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

I would stay clear of slang unless necessary, it's too easy to make a mistake which you leave you looking like a fool.

- medio pelo
- a pelo
- en pedo
- ni en pedo
- tomando el pelo

You can make a complete fool of yourself easily enough by mixing up these relatively similar sounding exp<b></b>ressions. Keep ti simple until you are super confident with regard to slang.

 

[pitipur]

I would stay clear of slang unless necessary, it's too easy to make a mistake which you leave you looking like a fool.

- medio pelo
- a pelo
- en pedo
- ni en pedo
- tomando el pelo

You can make a complete fool of yourself easily enough by mixing up these relatively similar sounding exp<b></b>ressions. Keep ti simple until you are super confident with regard to slang.

I really like trying to use the slang. When I get it right, everyone gets a big kick out of it. When I get it wrong, everyone gets a big kick out of it. It's all about not taking yourself too seriously and as some others have said, just going for it and allowing yourself to make mistakes. Once you say "al palo" instead of "al pedo", everyone will laugh and you likely won't make the same mistake again.

It's all about practice, practice, practice. I'm a little over a year in now (coming with only verrrry basic spanish at the start) and I can now understand a fair amount, and the speaking is getting much better and a bit more fluid too, but it's a never-ending process and there will always be good days and bad days along the way. For me, it's about celebrating small victories -- like when I use a word in a sentence that I previously had to look up every time I heard it. It's also important to look back at where you were a few months ago to see how much you've improved, since it's hard to see the improvement on a day to day basis. Even though I still feel like I don't know much, when I look back to where I was 6 months ago, or even when I arrived here, it's easy to see that I've come a longgggggg way.

That being said, I wouldn't be nearly where I am today if I didnt work with a big group of argentines. That's really the most important thing for me, to surround yourself with people you can speak to, and who will help and correct you (if you want to be corrected, of course). And I've always found a night out is the best time to practice, when your guard is down a bit and you're not overthinking every word so much . That being said, I don't think I'll ever be "fluent" (to me, you are only "fluent" in a language if it was spoken in your home as a child..otherwise you'll never be able to learn all the intricacies) so I try not to make that my end goal.

 

[Jaredberryman]

It just takes time of being immersed. There are so many things about language you just can't learn in a book. You just have to experience and immerse yourself and you will start picking up all the colloquial exp<b></b>ressions and slang bit by bit just by osmosis. You will make mistakes and will continue to after years, but comprehension should come after a few months. Don't be afraid to ask people to explain what a word or exp<b></b>ression is.

I have met people who can speak practically like a native speaker and myself I am close but certainly not perfect 100%. It can be done, it just takes time and patience and living.

 

[Noruega]

I just want to say that everyone has given lots of great advice, and you will get there! I was lucky because I spoke Spanish well when I came, and because I had learned my Spanish in Panama, where they speak very, very fast and swallow half the word, so that part seemed natural to me, even though the accent of course is different. I tried to resist the porteño but after about 4 months I was swept away in a way of shhho and vos and all that stuff. I used to speak in a much more polite way, using usted and never uttering a swear word. Now, it is a different story!

I agree with pitipur about the slang, use away! Like he says, you'll get a laugh either way. I used the word "fulepe" a few times (fright, scare in lunfardo) and my friends thought it was hilarious that I knew the word.

My main advice is always to just speak away and don't be worried. Some people are scared to speak unless they know that what they say is correct, but that doesn't work. I teach Norwegian to some total beginners and the ones who do best are the ones who just throw themselves in and speak away, whether it is correct or not. Of course, personality has to do with this too, as outgoing people are more likely to just chat away with strangers, while for an introvert that might be much more of a challenge.

 

[syngirl]

The most off-putting thing is that they are so playful with words. Often they merge them, or switch the last half of the word with the first half, cut -s here and there so that some words sounds alike but don't make sense in a given context, or they add redundant tiny particles such as "ti, mi, le".
I came to the conclusion that:

1. In general, they speak very differently from the Argentinian Spanish you can read in a book.
   
2. What makes the slang more inaccessible is the lack of written resources, such as an Argentinian Urbandictionary.
   
3. In the press they often make mistakes in writing words or picking the correct verbs, this add up to the confusion.
   
4. The Spanish spoken here is somewhat different than elsewhere, but it is undocumented (at least in books for foreigners).
   
5. They don't seem to be concerned with this contamination, indeed they like to feel different from the rest of the Latin community, so that these variants are indeed welcome as a sign of Argentineness. Nobody cares of what la Real Academia says, often they don't even know there is a different word which is used by the rest of the Spanish speakers (for example frutilla (ARG) - fresa (ESP) for strawberry).

I cannot even give some example because I am not fluent, but it takes years to gain that level of confidence with a language at the point that you can play with it and do crosswords.

Slang -- there are quite a few Lunfardo books around, and there's a Diccionario del Habla de los Argentinos. There is also a website lurking around, I'll see if I can find it.

In the press -- I know that yes there are definitely mistakes, but I'm not sure if this is quite what you mean. Do you maybe mean the use of future perfect? I've only taken a year of Italian and that was over 20 years ago, so I can't remember much, but in Spanish there are all sorts of ways to employ verb tenses in order to express doubt or imply uncertainty -- ie the use of future perfect (ie El sospecho habrá comunicado con la victima" yes can be translated as "The suspect will have communicated..." but if it is written in terms of uncertainty / conjecture / probability about and event that occurred in the recent past it actually is "The suspect probably / must have communicated...." -- Not sure if this is the type of thing you're talking about, nor if I'm stating something that is equivalent in Italian verb usage.


Also it's not just Argentina that has distincts words. Avocado for instance -- Southern Cone, Peru, Venezuela = palta. Rest of World = aguacate. Colombia? Cura. Oh those damned Colombians not even knowing or caring that there is a different word used by the rest of Spanish speakers. Oh if only they and the 460 million + other speakers of Spanish all referred to MADRID and the RAE. It's one thing to wish for a use of Spanish neutral on global news networks or in international editions of books. But seriously? To expect the average man in the street to look to the RAE. I know plenty of Argentines who work with language (linguists, translators, interpretors, professors) and yes, they read and maybe keep a bit more abreast of changes at the RAE. But the average guy in the street? Tell me, does the average guy in some tiny village in Southern Italy pay attention to what they dictate at La Cursa? I doubt it. And Italy is much smaller both geographically and in terms of numbers of speakers of that language.

 

[Roxana]

At the beginning it is hard to understand a spoken language if it is not your native tongue and there is a noisy background.

There are several scientific studies that shown that you are really fluent in your not- native language when you think and dream using the second language. Stadistically, the time required to switch and be able to think and dream, is about 3 months living with locals.

Sopa de letras first, then palabras cruzadas, are a good resource to improve your vocabulary.

To master Spanish you need more than 800 words in your vocabulary, while in English with some 350 words is enough to communicate.

My advice is to change the subjects you read, listen or talk about, so you will get used to adjust quickly to different accents and vocabulary. Also, listen to the radio, news, opinion and music.

 

[sleslie23]

Slang -- there are quite a few Lunfardo books around, and there's a Diccionario del Habla de los Argentinos. There is also a website lurking around, I'll see if I can find it.

In the press -- I know that yes there are definitely mistakes, but I'm not sure if this is quite what you mean. Do you maybe mean the use of future perfect? I've only taken a year of Italian and that was over 20 years ago, so I can't remember much, but in Spanish there are all sorts of ways to employ verb tenses in order to express doubt or imply uncertainty -- ie the use of future perfect (ie El sospecho habrá comunicado con la victima" yes can be translated as "The suspect will have communicated..." but if it is written in terms of uncertainty / conjecture / probability about and event that occurred in the recent past it actually is "The suspect probably / must have communicated...." -- Not sure if this is the type of thing you're talking about, nor if I'm stating something that is equivalent in Italian verb usage.


Also it's not just Argentina that has distincts words. Avocado for instance -- Southern Cone, Peru, Venezuela = palta. Rest of World = aguacate. Colombia? Cura. Oh those damned Colombians not even knowing or caring that there is a different word used by the rest of Spanish speakers. Oh if only they and the 460 million + other speakers of Spanish all referred to MADRID and the RAE. It's one thing to wish for a use of Spanish neutral on global news networks or in international editions of books. But seriously? To expect the average man in the street to look to the RAE. I know plenty of Argentines who work with language (linguists, translators, interpretors, professors) and yes, they read and maybe keep a bit more abreast of changes at the RAE. But the average guy in the street? Tell me, does the average guy in some tiny village in Southern Italy pay attention to what they dictate at La Cursa? I doubt it. And Italy is much smaller both geographically and in terms of numbers of speakers of that language.

Ha ha, true. Just like most English speakers don't use the OED when typing out their posts on BAExpats.

As far as the Rioplatense dialect not being, "documented," this is not true. In addition to various lunfardo and slang dictionaries already mentioned, there was even a Diccionario Oxford Inglés-Español Edición Rioplatense, though it seems to be out of print now:

http://www.amazon.com/Diccionario-Edicion-Rioplatense-Espanol-Ingles-Ingles-Espanol/dp/0194312453

Just to throw in my additional 2 centavos, I agree with everyone's take on becoming fluent. Practice, practice, practice and avoid using English as much as possible. In addition to radio and TV, YouTube is your friend. Personally, I learned Argentino from watching Capusotto and La Llama que Llama.

I think the real challenge in becoming "truly fluent" is to be able to switch between formal and informal Spanish and even between Argentino and non-Argentino. That takes years. For me, that meant years of hanging out with friends, drinking Quilmes and playing music, but also 7 years of formal classes devoted primarily to improving my academic, formal Spanish.

Ultimately, it's more about the journey and process than the end result. If you're in it for the long haul, just immerse yourself as much as possible and in as many contexts as possible. If you do that, you can't help but learn Spanish.