Advantages of being citizen vs resident?

[London2Baires]

If you don't plan on living in another Mercosur country what would be the advantage?

It's still an advantage, in the sense that you accrue benefits and rights which you'd otherwise not have. Whether you need/want those advantages is of course another matter.

That's how it looks to me anyway.

 

[Juantime]

Well, in the past couple years I got the impression form one "citizenship lawyer" that a lawyer is required if you don't have a DNI.

If that is the case, then I'd say he has a case.

I still wonder if it's true.

I'm always in two minds whether I should enter these debates but as an expat currently challenging the court citing my constitutional right for my Argentine citizenship without official legal representation and as someone who did not chose the Residency route, I think I may have some relative experience to share.

The short answer is that I would not attempt this process again without legal representation.

As a neophyte in Argentine law, the context for attempting this process without a lawyer is daunting and ever-changing. Fingers crossed I'm nearly at the end, having submitted my latest appeal to show means to support myself but because of retroactive laws brought in by Macri supposing the oversight of citizenship to be administered by the Immigrations department, I lost a year while it was established as unconstitutional.

The control on citizenship without residency is getting tighter from my perspective and I have had to use the help of a seasoned lawyer/good friend of mine to help with appeals. He is not the 'citizenship lawyer' commonly worshipped here after I found said lawyer to be unreliable and untrustworthy. Those who wish for my lawyer's details can PM me here.

When I came here many moons ago, it was my understanding that I could not apply for residency and having committed to living here long term, I thought my only option was citizenship. I will be proud to call myself Argentinian and will share the happy news of my citizenship if/when it happens.

 

[London2Baires]

I'm always in two minds whether I should enter these debates but as an expat currently challenging the court citing my constitutional right for my Argentine citizenship without official legal representation and as someone who did not chose the Residency route, I think I may have some relative experience to share.

The short answer is that I would not attempt this process again without legal representation.

As a neophyte in Argentine law, the context for attempting this process without a lawyer is daunting and ever-changing. Fingers crossed I'm nearly at the end, having submitted my latest appeal to show means to support myself but because of retroactive laws brought in by Macri supposing the oversight of citizenship to be administered by the Immigrations department, I lost a year while it was established as unconstitutional.

The control on citizenship without residency is getting tighter from my perspective and I have had to use the help of a seasoned lawyer/good friend of mine to help with appeals. He is not the 'citizenship lawyer' commonly worshipped here after I found said lawyer to be unreliable and untrustworthy. Those who wish for my lawyer's details can PM me here.

When I came here many moons ago, it was my understanding that I could not apply for residency and having committed to living here long term, I thought my only option was citizenship. I will be proud to call myself Argentinian and will share the happy news of my citizenship if/when it happens.

Fascinating, thanks much for sharing!!

 

[steveinbsas]

Pretty sure citizenship grants you mercosud rights. Don't think residency does this.

If you don't plan on living in another Mercosur country what would be the advantage?

It's still an advantage, in the sense that you accrue benefits and rights which you'd otherwise not have. Whether you need/want those advantages is of course another matter.

That's how it looks to me anyway.

Could you please be a little more specific...as in name a few of the benefits, advantages, and/or rights you are thinking of?

 

[ben]

Could you please be a little more specific...as in name a few of the benefits, advantages, and/or rights you are thinking of?

• In theory, if Argentina goes full police state (as some around here have been prophesying for years), then citizenship should offer more legal safety than residency. Residency is an administrative procedure, DNM may be able to revoke it at will, whereas citizenship is granted by the court and can not be taken away easily.
  • Then again, if Argentina went full police state, the issue may well be moot.
  • Besides, most people here would be running for the exits anyways.
• Some professions are only available to Argentine citizens. For example, translator: membership in the Colegio de Traductores Públicos de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires is conditional on, among other things, being a citizen for 5 years.

 

[London2Baires]

Could you please be a little more specific...as in name a few of the benefits, advantages, and/or rights you are thinking of?

Sure!

"Mercosur citizens have the right to free movement, residence and employment throughout the bloc and in the five associated countries.[2] Citizens still have free transport of goods, services and money, as well as equality of rights, harmonization of social security systems and labor laws. "

"
Benefits for citizens[edit]
Travel Documents[edit]
Nationals of Member States (Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay) and Associated States (Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru) do not need a passport or visa to travel around the region, with only a national identity card or other document considered valid.[3]

Residence Agreement[edit]
The Agreement grants the right to residence and work for citizens with no requirement other than nationality. Citizens of the Member States and Associated States that are part of the agreement enjoy a facilitated procedure for applying for a residence visa, as long as they have a valid passport, birth certificate and a negative certificate of criminal record. It is possible to apply for the grant of "temporary residence" of up to two years in another country of the block. Before the expiry of the term of "temporary residence", the interested parties may request their transformation into permanent residence.[3]

Social Security[edit]
The Agreement allows migrant workers and their families to have access to the benefits of social security by allowing nationals of one Member State to have accounted for their working time in another Member State for the purpose of granting retirement, invalidity or death benefits.[3]

Educational Integration[edit]
Mercosur has protocols for educational integration, which provide for the revalidation of diplomas, certificates, degrees and the recognition of studies at the fundamental and secondary levels, technical and non-technical. The protocols also cover post-graduate studies. There is also the Regional Accreditation System for Mercosur Undergraduate Courses (ARCU-SUL) and the Integrated Mobility System (SIMERCOSUL).[3]

"

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_Mercosur#Social_Security

 

[oomotep]

What are the tax implications?

 

[ben]

What are the tax implications?

AFAIK, in theory there are none.

• If you live here, you are on the hook for income tax irrespective of whether you're a citizen or not.
• If you don't, then you're off the hook. Only 2 countries on Earth tax non-resident citizens, and Argentina is not one of those 2.

In practice, Argentina may be more willing to demand information about your finances from a foreign government if you're a citizen. This is pure speculation on my part, though.

 

[steveinbsas]

Sure!

"Mercosur citizens have the right to free movement, residence and employment throughout the bloc and in the five associated countries.[2] Citizens still have free transport of goods, services and money, as well as equality of rights, harmonization of social security systems and labor laws. "

"
Benefits for citizens[edit]
Travel Documents[edit]
Nationals of Member States (Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay) and Associated States (Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru) do not need a passport or visa to travel around the region, with only a national identity card or other document considered valid.[3]

Residence Agreement[edit]
The Agreement grants the right to residence and work for citizens with no requirement other than nationality. Citizens of the Member States and Associated States that are part of the agreement enjoy a facilitated procedure for applying for a residence visa, as long as they have a valid passport, birth certificate and a negative certificate of criminal record. It is possible to apply for the grant of "temporary residence" of up to two years in another country of the block. Before the expiry of the term of "temporary residence", the interested parties may request their transformation into permanent residence.[3]

Social Security[edit]
The Agreement allows migrant workers and their families to have access to the benefits of social security by allowing nationals of one Member State to have accounted for their working time in another Member State for the purpose of granting retirement, invalidity or death benefits.[3]

Educational Integration[edit]
Mercosur has protocols for educational integration, which provide for the revalidation of diplomas, certificates, degrees and the recognition of studies at the fundamental and secondary levels, technical and non-technical. The protocols also cover post-graduate studies. There is also the Regional Accreditation System for Mercosur Undergraduate Courses (ARCU-SUL) and the Integrated Mobility System (SIMERCOSUL).[3]

"

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_Mercosur#Social_Security

Thank for posting this.

Speaking only for myself, I don't find any of the travel or residency "benefits" desirable as I have no plans to travel or live in any other country in South America and I would never be eligible for the social security and educational advantages or seek any kind of work in Argentina.

 

[steveinbsas]

If you live here, you are on the hook for income tax irrespective of whether you're a citizen or not..

Not if you're not working in Argentina and living off of personal savings.