Advantages of being citizen vs resident?

[ben]

Not if you're not working in Argentina and living off of personal savings.

Yes you’re right, income tax has a funny way of being somewhat related to income.
Citizenship still irrelevant though.

 

[steveinbsas]

Yes you’re right, income tax has a funny way of being somewhat related to income.
Citizenship still irrelevant though.

Migraciones regarded the monthly "distributions" from the trust I set up to qualify for the monthly "ingresssos: for the visa rentista (though it might be more precise to call it "cash flow" as opposed to income),

I have previously posted how to set up a bank trust with CD's in the trust that can be used to generate the monthly "income" to meet the minimums set by migraciones.

I don't think anyone else has posted that they tried doing this, but I can say, based on my own experience, that it worked for me, at least at migraciones.

I seriously doubt that $24,000 USD (deposited in a trust in CD's with varying maturity dates) would be enough for an Argentine judge to grant citizenship.

Migraciouies was (and hopefully still is) only concerned that the monthly "income" will continue for the duration of the visa (plus one year).

PS: When i applied for temporary residency, the monthly income requirement was just under $1000 USD, so $24,000 in the trust was enough to quality for residency and I deposited an additional $12,000 USD prior to each of the three renewals.

Assuming migraciones will soon increase the monthly income requirement in pesos to reflect an amount equal to $2,000 in USD, the initial deposit in a trust set up will have to be about $48,000.

 

[AAntonio]

Question, do I have to renounce my American citizenship to obtain the Argentine one?

 

[steveinbsas]

• In theory, if Argentina goes full police state (as some around here have been prophesying for years), then citizenship should offer more legal safety than residency. Residency is an administrative procedure, DNM may be able to revoke it at will, whereas citizenship is granted by the court and can not be taken away easily.
  • Then again, if Argentina went full police state, the issue may well be moot.
  • Besides, most people here would be running for the exits anyways.

If Argentina goes "full police state" and seizes the assets of it's citizens, might they also prevent those citizens from leaving the country?

If I understand correctly, Argentine citizenship, once granted, cannot be renounced.

 

[steveinbsas]

Question, do I have to renounce my American citizenship to obtain the Argentine one?

Based on other posts I've read asking this question, even if you did (in front of an Argentine judge) it would be meaningless in the US.

 

[Stantucker]

The control on citizenship without residency is getting tighter from my perspective QUOTE]
What kind of residency are you referring to? Permanent or temporary?

 

[steveinbsas]

Stan's question:

What kind of residency are you referring to? Permanent of temporary?"

was posting inside the quote:

The control on citizenship without residency is getting tighter from my perspective.

Based on posts I've read in the forum (most by that "citizenship lawyer"), more judges than ever are requiring two years of uninterrupted physical presence in Argentina and that it is still possible (with legal representation) to obtain citizenship without temporary residency or the DNI.

It doesn't appear to make much difference if the residency is temporary or permanent, but the best way to get a "quick" answer is to go to the federal court that has jurisdiction over your domicile and ask for a list of the requirements.

 

[ben]

Question, do I have to renounce my American citizenship to obtain the Argentine one?

It is the position of the Argentine government that you do not.

Based on posts I've read in the forum (most by that "citizenship lawyer"), more judges than ever are requiring two years of uninterrupted physical presence in Argentina and that it is still possible (with legal representation) to obtain citizenship without temporary residency or the DNI.

It doesn't appear to make much difference if the residency is temporary or permanent, but the best way to get a "quick" answer is to go to the federal court that has jurisdiction over your domicile and ask for a list of the requirements.

It is worth reminding again that this requirement does not exist for anyone with a (native) Argentine spouse and/or children:

 

[steveinbsas]

It is worth reminding again that this requirement does not exist for anyone with a (native) Argentine spouse and/or children:

Since this comment was made in reply to my post about courts requiring two years of uinterrupted physical presence, it may be worth remembering this:

I am married to an Argentine woman and we are now living in Argentina (Mendoza) for two months. My wife went today to the Federal Court to ask about citizenship procedure (so that I apply in few coming months) and one employee working there told her that I need at least two years of residence. She tried to explain him the fact that to be married to an Argentine citizen gives me right to apply with no need of waiting the period of two years. The employee didnt care about this information and confirmed to her that two years is a must before any application. This makes me confused. Do I really have to wait the two years as he said? I mean, what are the options available for me now?

Source: A question about citizenship, please

This thread was started mid-Novemeber, 2108 and the OP has yet to say his case has been accepted.

It may also be worth noting that BC2 made this comment in the thread in answer to the question if the two years' residency had to be continuous::

Continueous. There are no rules, it is all allegation.

In other words, the "position of the Argentine government" may not mean jack when it comes down to the individual court...unless you have a good "citizenship lawyer" who can set the judge (or the secretary) straight.

 

[ben]

I am not sure that a non-lawyer can threaten sanctions against a clerk, but you can definitely set that clerk straight.
The law in question is Ley 23.059, which restored the pre-dictatorship citizenship law. The reglamento of that law, Decreto N° 3.213/1984, specifies the following:

Art. 3° — Los extranjeros designados en el artículo 2° inciso 1° de la Ley N° 346, al tiempo de solicitar su naturalización deberán cumplimentar las siguientes condiciones:​

​

a) tener dieciocho (18) años de edad cumplidos​

b) residir en la República dos (2) años continuos​

c) manifestar ante los jueces federales su voluntad de serlo.​

​

That is where the 2 year requirement is spelled out. The subsequent subclauses detail when that requirement is waived (emphasis mine):

También podrán obtener la naturalización cualquiera sea el tiempo de su residencia los extranjeros que acrediten las siguientes circunstancias:​

​

a) haber desempeñado con honradez empleos en la Administración Pública Nacional, Provincial o Municipal o en el Territorio Nacional de la Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sud, dentro o fuera de la República.​

b) haber servido en las Fuerzas Armadas Argentinas o haber asistido a una acción de guerra en defensa de la Nación.​

c) haber establecido en el país una nueva industria, introducido una invención útil o realizado cualquier otra acción, que signifique un adelanto moral o material para la República.​

d) hallarse formando parte de las colonias establecidas o que se establecieren en cualquier punto del país.​

e) habitar o promover el poblamiento del Territorio Nacional de la Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sud.​

f) tener cónyuge o hijo argentino nativo.​

g) ejercer la docencia en cualquiera de sus ramas.​

In short, you are not subject to the 2-year residency requirement if you: worked for any level of government; served in the armed forces; have introduced a new industry to the country; form part of the colonies established in the country(?); live or help populate specific territories; have a native Argentine spouse or child; teach just about anywhere.

You tell the clerk he/she is violating the law, and cite chapter and verse, they tend to yield pretty fast.