Airliner Shot Down?

Just in case you need a wingnut conspiracy update....: http://tinyurl.com/mharx3r
 
Guys,

The SA-6 or Buk (same thing) is a surface to air system from the 1960s. Its radar fire control system cannot distinguish between planes very well. The Malaysian 777 has a very similar radar signature as the IL-76 military cargo plane widely used by the Ukrainian military. Just 3 days ago, Ukrainian rebels shot down an IL-76 that belonged tot he government near the same area. Very likely the rebels confused the Malaysian 777 with an Ukrainian IL-76 and shot it down.

Ukrainian IL-76

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A passenger posted this on Facebook right before he boarded Malaysia Airlines MH17. It reads "If it disappears, this is what it looks like."

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An IL-76 is 1/2 the size of a B777. They have a similar radar signature only to someone who has no idea what they are doing. I'm pretty sure the Buk can interrogate IFF as well and tell the difference between Mode II and Mode III.

I think it was an AN-26 that was shot down.
 
GS_Dirtboy said:
An IL-76 is 1/2 the size of a B777. They have a similar radar signature only to someone who has no idea what they are doing. I'm pretty sure the Buk can interrogate IFF as well and tell the difference between Mode II and Mode III.
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If a highly sophisticated US NAVY AEGIS system can mistake an Airbus A300 for an F-14 (See Iran Air Flight 655), a much more primitive SA-6 can confuse an 777 for an Il-76. Also, size has nothing to do with it. Radar cross section does.
 
The Vincennes didn't "mistake" the A300 for an F-14. That was the official story.

I know just a little bit about RCS - I was a fighter pilot in the US Navy. Sorry, but you are wrong, man - size is one of the variables for an RCS signature. A B777 and an IL-76 will have a different signature. Anyone with any descent training could tell them apart. Further, being able to visually identify the target, flying at FL330, IFF mode interrogation, flying in a civilian corridor, flying on a civilian published schedule ... if it was mistaken identity they didn't work very hard to identify the aircraft.
 
I am not an expert in aviation and may be somebody here has an idea of this. I have been curious about the technology that is used to identify an airplane when the previous Malayan airplane disappeared. Is there any kind of asymmetric or symmetric encryption technology to identify each commercial plane? Is there any technical limitation because of the quantity of the flights? Or the verification just depends on the model of the plane, schedule, the route, and other features?

Can an expert undermine the control of a plane by accessing different networks and pass the plane as a threat for other networks and create an international conflict?
 
When you consider all the factors mentioned on this board and you ad the fact that in the last two weeks the pro Russian separatists have downed several Ukrainian aircraft in that very area then the odds are much higher that the Pro Russian Separatists are most likely the guilty party. In error they shot down an international passenger jet thinking it was Ukrainian military - No rocket science needed here. Worst thing is that the Russians got a hold of one of the black boxes I think I read somewhere. Unconfirmed report say that one of the pro Russia leaders even posted about it on Russian social media networks saying something along the lines of "We warned not to fly their aircraft there!" - only to delete it quickly afterwards when they realized the tragic blunder. Apparently the Ukrainians have intercepted voice records of one of the first separatists sent to check on the wreckage "It doesn't appear to show any signs of this being a military aircraft" he is supposed to be saying in the recording -scratches head.
 
Well it does beg the question of why a commercial airliner (no matter the height at which it flies or what it's radar signature may be) is flying through an area where planes have recently been shot down?? That seems extremely careless to me. And I'm not particularly blaming Malaysian airlines, they're probably not the only ones, but you'd think such areas would be avoided by all airlines.

In any case, hopefully the truth comes out and the people responsible will be held accountable. Such a tragedy.
 
GS_Dirtboy said:
The Vincennes didn't "mistake" the A300 for an F-14. That was the official story.
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This is an extraordinary statement. Saying that the US Navy deliberately and knowingly shot down an unarmed civilian aircraft loaded with almost 300 men, women and children on a regular civilian route and inside Iranian air space is quite an accusation. Not even the Soviet Union (this incident happened during the cold war) accused the US of deliberately targeting a civilian aircraft. Also it is interesting that not a single whistle blower came out of the crew of 330 officers and enlisted men of the USS Vincennes to contradict the official story, which is also quite remarkable. I find quite unlikely that no one amongst 330 US Navy sailors would have no objection, remorse or guilt towards the systematic and unprovoked murder of almost 300 unarmed civilians. If what you are saying is right, you were once a member of one of the most corrupt, ruthless and cold blooded institution in the history of the United States. This is the type of accusation I'd expect from Matias, not from you.

However, the reality is that properly identifying and engaging targets electronically and outside of regular visual range has always been a huge challenge and many mistakes have happened or almost happened.

In 1982, the radars from the British Task Force near the Falklands mistaken a Brazilian Varig Boeing 707 on route from Cape Town to Rio for an Argentine BAE Canberra military recon airfraft shadowing the task force. Harriers were scrambled to intercept and shoot down the plane. Fortunately, the British rules of engagement required visual contact and confirmation before firing. The Harrier pilots approached the plane and saw that was a Brazilian commercial jet liner and did not engage.

In 1983 Soviet radars mistaken a Korean Air Boeing 747 for a US Navy P-3 Orion electronic surveillance plane. The Korean Air plane had drifted from its original path and inadvertently entered Soviet military air space. Fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the intruder. Because it was night and the weather was really bad, the Soviet fighter pilots were unable to visually identify the plane. The plane was shot down and all 300+ passengers killed.

In 1988 we had the Iran Air flight 655 incident that we already discussed, and that you claim was not an accident.

In 2001 The Ukrainian military accidentally shot down Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, killing all 78 passengers on board.

The fact is that properly identifying targets beyond visual range and relying only on electronic sensors is a very difficult and complex matter, even with the most advanced system employed today. When you consider a group of poorly trained rebels operating an air defense system with electronics from the Vietnam War era (analog computers and vacuum tubes), the possibilities of mistakes seem very plausible.
 
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