American facing extradition from Argentina for murder

[Johnno]

USS Liberty is one of the most disgraceful examples of all - and even to this day the criminals responsible have not been touched for this war crime - of course, they belong to a very special group - they are untouchable...

 

[Johnno]

For anyone not aware of the whole USS Liberty story this pretty much sums it up: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html?q=ussliberty.html

 

[comidaparapensar]

This is certainly conclusive proof that 9/11 was a government conspiracy, well maybe not.

Did I ever say it was? I was simply countering this belief that the U.S. government could never be involved in something like 9/11, when, in fact, they planned something quite similar in the 1960s while trying to "fight communism."

I don't know who was behind 9/11, but I don't buy the official nonsense. There are so many questions. Why isn't anyone willing to answer them? There's a reason why Bush opposed the 9/11 Commission, and there's a reason why it failed miserably at getting any answers.

 

[gouchobob]

Did I ever say it was? I was simply countering this belief that the U.S. government could never be involved in something like 9/11, when, in fact, they planned something quite similar in the 1960s while trying to "fight communism."

I don't know who was behind 9/11, but I don't buy the official nonsense. There are so many questions. Why isn't anyone willing to answer them? There's a reason why Bush opposed the 9/11 Commission, and there's a reason why it failed miserably at getting any answers.

This will go on forever as one screwy theory is debunked another will simply be erected to replace it. People who want to believe this stuff are entitled to. Much of what you see here is the result of virulent anti-Americanism from several well known members. For the government to have pulled off something like this there would have to have been thousands of people involved. All this time has passed and no one has spilled the beans, what was the motive of the government, come on folks grow up.

As far as any similarities between Northwoods and 9/11 I'll offer the following. At the time, Russia and Cuba were our mortal enemies, the communists. Anyone even suspected of being a commie was blacklisted. We all built fallout shelters in case of global thermonuclear war. Kruschev (the leader of Russia) screamed “We will bury you!” at the UN, referring to us. Cuba did, in fact, have nuclear weapons at the time, pointed at us. It was terrifying and it’s no exaggeration to say we almost started WWIII.. We almost destroyed the world.

Against this backdrop, someone thought of Operation Northwoods. You can hardly blame them. However, even under all this pressure, it was rejected.

Of course 9/11 was not an inside job, so there is no similarities at all.

However, I think you're asking, since we thought of Operation Northwood, doesn't that mean we COULD have faked 9/11? No. One does not imply the other: Northwood was decades ago, with different people who are all now dead, and with different situation--namely, possibly global thermonuclear war. This makes people think strange plans (Northwoods) & we STILL didn't do it!!
Different people, different situation, no motive. This plan, never undertaken (Northwoods) proves nothing.

If anything, it proves that we couldn’t do it then, so we couldn’t do it now.

 

[comidaparapensar]

This will go on forever as one screwy theory is debunked another will simply be erected to replace it. People who want to believe this stuff are entitled to. Much of what you see here is the result of virulent anti-Americanism from several well known members. For the government to have pulled off something like this there would have to have been thousands of people involved. All this time has passed and no one has spilled the beans, what was the motive of the government, come on folks grow up.

As far as any similarities between Northwoods and 9/11 I'll offer the following. At the time, Russia and Cuba were our mortal enemies, the communists. Anyone even suspected of being a commie was blacklisted. We all built fallout shelters in case of global thermonuclear war. Kruschev (the leader of Russia) screamed “We will bury you!” at the UN, referring to us. Cuba did, in fact, have nuclear weapons at the time, pointed at us. It was terrifying and it’s no exaggeration to say we almost started WWIII.. We almost destroyed the world.

Against this backdrop, someone thought of Operation Northwoods. You can hardly blame them. However, even under all this pressure, it was rejected.

Of course 9/11 was not an inside job, so there is no similarities at all.

However, I think you're asking, since we thought of Operation Northwood, doesn't that mean we COULD have faked 9/11? No. One does not imply the other: Northwood was decades ago, with different people who are all now dead, and with different situation--namely, possibly global thermonuclear war. This makes people think strange plans (Northwoods) & we STILL didn't do it!!
Different people, different situation, no motive. This plan, never undertaken (Northwoods) proves nothing.

If anything, it proves that we couldn’t do it then, so we couldn’t do it now.

As far as any similarities between Northwoods and 9/11 I'll offer the following. Now, Muslims are our mortal enemies, the terrorists. Anyone even suspected of being a Muslim is blacklisted. We've passed laws increasing police power in case of a terrorists attacks. Osama bin Laden (the leader of Al-Qaeda) screams “We will bury you!” in his cave, referring to us. Al-Qaeda does, in fact, have weapons, pointed at us. It is terrifying and it’s no exaggeration to say we are starting WWIII.. We might the destroy the world

Against this backdrop, someone thought of 9/11. You can hardly blame them. However, even under all this pressure, it was... oh, it happened.

 

[ghost]

There is some evidence to support that Mossad was involved (here, here and here). If they were it would have been ideal to use mostly Mossad agents as they would not have to kill their own people. That group probably included people planting explosives, working floor by floor using the elevator shafts. And people at the command center to remote control the aircrafts, start the detonation sequence and oversee the operation.

by it.

I'm glad to see that someone brought up the Mosad connection here and the USS Liberty, with reference to several other Mosad ops.
This has always been something that I found to be very bothersome about the governments official story on 9/11 and /or the Bin Laden angle and the mainline conspiracy theories [which attempt to implicate direct CIA involvement] which simply makes little sense considering the logistics and resources required to pull off such an operation and the number of people who need to remain silent forever.
Compounding that with untrained piper students pulling off an ultra high G turn at 550 mph and nailing Silverstiens towers dead on, while similarily trained students somehow manage to operate a 757 at full bore while cruising 10 feet above the deck [on a resistant cushion of air] and drilling neatly into the Pentagon.
Further compunding the finger pointing exercise are the sheer volume of options trades that took place surrounding 911 connected companies, like AA and UAL on the downside and Hiliburton on the upside play, with Goldman Sachs leading the play. [this really is not the way Bin laden thinks]
Mosad has along history of ops that end up sucking the US and others into their war on Muslems. And we [US] have a similarly long history of covering their trail afer we discover the charade.
This whole thing is is a "Rabbit Hole" that I really hate to dive into because the possibilities sickening.
Relating this all back to Sonnenfeld and his claim to some mystery footage, the only thing I can think I can imagine that he might have are so called shots of the "Open Vaults" at ground zero????????

 

[redrum]

let's talk about the plane's black boxes. they almost always, always find the black boxes even at the bottom of the ocean. so why is it that "officially" none of the 4 boxes at ground zero have been discovered?

they combed that debris down to human bone fragments yet they couldn't find 4 big yellow shiny boxes? and if they did find them but aren't releasing the information, why the secrecy? what are they hiding? are we to believe the official version that supposedly the boxes disintegrated?

i think the general consensus on this thread is that we don't know what really happened that day. all we know for sure is that it didn't happen the way the official story says. and that is not a conspiracy theory. it's just common sense.


http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/blackboxes.html

The FAA has placed durability requirements on the recorders and their casings to survive severe impact and fire

The storage medium of each recorder is located in a protective capsule, which must be able to withstand an impact of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity). Additionally, each must also survive flames at 2,000 F for up to 30 minutes, and submersion in 20,000 feet of saltwater for 30 days. Typically, to increase their chances of survival, the recorders are located in the tail section of the aircraft, which usually sustains the least impact in a crash

 

[comidaparapensar]

i think the general consensus on this thread is that we don't know what really happened that day. all we know for sure is that it didn't happen the way the official story says. and that is not a conspiracy theory. it's just common sense.

well said!

 

[gouchobob]

let's talk about the plane's black boxes. they almost always, always find the black boxes even at the bottom of the ocean. so why is it that "officially" none of the 4 boxes at ground zero have been discovered?

they combed that debris down to human bone fragments yet they couldn't find 4 big yellow shiny boxes? and if they did find them but aren't releasing the information, why the secrecy? what are they hiding? are we to believe the official version that supposedly the boxes disintegrated?

i think the general consensus on this thread is that we don't know what really happened that day. all we know for sure is that it didn't happen the way the official story says. and that is not a conspiracy theory. it's just common sense.


http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/blackboxes.html

The FAA has placed durability requirements on the recorders and their casings to survive severe impact and fire

The storage medium of each recorder is located in a protective capsule, which must be able to withstand an impact of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity). Additionally, each must also survive flames at 2,000 F for up to 30 minutes, and submersion in 20,000 feet of saltwater for 30 days. Typically, to increase their chances of survival, the recorders are located in the tail section of the aircraft, which usually sustains the least impact in a crash

Here is another theory that doesn't make sense. If the government was behind 9/11 wouldn't they just have another set a black boxes showing whatever they wanted them to? I suppose if they had been found there would now be people saying they couldn't possibly survived the fire. If people use just a little commonsense 99% of these theories evaporate.

 

[orwellian]

Here is another theory that doesn't make sense. If the government was behind 9/11 wouldn't they just have another set a black boxes showing whatever they wanted them to?

Well the reason they haven't been officially found is because then they'd have to disclose the content of the voice recordings (according to two firemen at least 3 out of 4 boxes were recovered). They could fake this of course but that would complicate things quite a lot. The easiest thing is to just say that they didn't find them.

I suppose if they had been found there would now be people saying they couldn't possibly survived the fire.

The black boxes for flight 93 were officially found, yet no one is saying that.

If people use just a little commonsense 99% of these theories evaporate.

They find the passport of one of the hijackers but not the black boxes. What I want to know: WHERE IS YOUR COMMONSENSE? Seriously...