Any UBA graduates out there?

[KatharineAnn]

I also belong to the ¨started but gave up¨ category unfortunately! Reading your post is like dark humor to me, because I went through all that as well, the ¨talk to your consulate¨ ¨no, talk to the UBA¨, ¨no, there´s nothing WE can do¨ ¨yeah just sign up like an argentine, no biggie¨ ¨what? you can´t do that, you need to finish argentine HIGH SCHOOL exams first!¨ ¨how do I do that?¨ and so on so forth...

Anyhow, needless to say I never even entered the UBA. I took 3 of the 6 required Argentine high school exams (geography, language and lit, and educacion civica) and it was such a demoralizing experience for me I just didn´t have the energy, will, or desire to continue, because I knew the UBA was going to be another 5+ years of that kind of ridiculous disorganization causing frustration after frustration. I felt highly offended - I graduated number one in my class in college with a dual degree, then I come to this country and suddenly Im not a candidate for an UNDERGRAD degree, and must take high school exams, which you must take in your local high school, where the teachers treat you like CRAP (remember high school?) well in the public school I took exams at, they were worse. I didn´t know the Argie high school norms so I didnt bring some things to the exam that were just ¨obvious¨ and the teachers scolded me like I was 16 again, and only soften up (and even grew to like me) when they realized I was a foreigner and really trying hard and doing quite well for all the craziness that I was trying to do. They ended up congratulating me on my performance, my Spanish, and my will. I think they felt bad for mistreating me.

Anyhow after that I started studying for my remaining 3 exams, and in the midst of that realized that I just wasn´t up for many years of this. I have now deciding that studying in Argentina is not for me, and plan to either get a master´s degree from the US if I plan to live there, or go to Europe to study hopefully in the future, where international students are probably a little better treated, since they´re just a tad bit more common

Anyway, if you´re in it for the long haul here, go for it, and I wish you lots of luck and more than anything, voluntad!

 

[Ashley]

I'm not sure that's quite right. A licenciado here (even though it's a 5/6 year course at La uba - or four years at a private institution) is considered to be a bachelors degree, and is NOT a graduate degree (nor should it be)! I think the extra years take into consideration the cbc and the fact that, unlike the UK/US you only take one or two classes (max) a day full-time. My degree in the UK took 4 years, but that was after two years of a-levels, some pretty tough entry requirements and 3 classes a day!
The major difference between university here and universities in the US and UK is that, besides a high-school diploma, there are no entry requirements - anyone can study there. The UBA is at a higher level because the cbc acts as a kind of sieve, separating the students who don't quite cut it academically, from those who do. Private uni students can avoid this and just study for 4 years (maybe that's why the standard is sometimes so poor). However, if you already have some studies complete from the US, maybe you could avoid this too.
Once you get your bachelors/licenciado from La UBA, postgraduate degrees ARE available here. I started my Masters degree at La UBA - they also have PhD courses. I know someone who just got her Masters from La UBA and is now taking a PhD at UPenn. I also know a girl who got her licenciado at La UBA and is studying for a Masters at the Sorbonne. I'm not sure how your undergraduate courses would transfer if you didn't complete but as far as I can tell, once you have your bachelors from La UBA, you can go on to apply for any university abroad...just like anyone else...but YES, a licenciado is a bachelors degree.
As far as your other question is concerned, I have no idea what the application process is like to study as an undergraduate at La uba...but a US friend of mine who signed up (years ago, and didn't complete!), just stood in the queue at enrolment day with her various documents (high school dip, uni studies complete, dni, etc) and enrolled like an Argentine - no problems!

That is correct. Unlike the US and Europe Latin American degrees are not devided in undergraduate/graduate. This sucks when you want to apply to foreign universities or jobs that require a graduate degree (some organization may accept your 5 year degree as a graduate degree, but this is not the norm). That said, lots of argentines (including most of the proffesors at the UBA ) do their masters or PhDs in the US or Europe, so the UBA degree is certainly not worthless.

As far as studying at the UBA, i think it depends on your motivation and what you want to study. Keep in mind, the UBA requeries a more serious long term commitment.

 

[GuilleGee]

Unlike the US and Europe Latin American degrees are not devided in undergraduate/graduate.

Untrue, there are Carreras de Grado and de Posgrado, Undergraduate and Graduate Careers. It is definately not divided in the same manner as in the US, but many professors graduate from with Argentine Posgrados.

 

[fedecc]

I repeat, there is no undergraduate/graduate system in Argentina, and the difference is obvious.

Undergraduate/graduate system = 3 years + 2 years = 5 years *

Licenciatura/Posgraduate system= 5 years + 2 years = 7 years *

The actuall numbers may vary, but this are the usual.


That is quite a difference for me. Exactly 2 years actually.

 

[SaraSara]

Don't undergraduate degrees take four-years? Then one or two more years for a Master's degree, plus a thesis, depending on how closely related to the undergrad degree.

 

[KatharineAnn]

! I think the extra years take into consideration the cbc and the fact that, unlike the UK/US you only take one or two classes (max) a day full-time.

Once you get your bachelors/licenciado from La UBA, postgraduate degrees ARE available here. I started my Masters degree at La UBA - they also have PhD courses. I know someone who just got her Masters from La UBA and is now taking a PhD at UPenn. I also know a girl who got her licenciado at La UBA and is studying for a Masters at the Sorbonne. I'm not sure how your undergraduate courses would transfer if you didn't complete but as far as I can tell, once you have your bachelors from La UBA, you can go on to apply for any university abroad...just like anyone else...but YES, a licenciado is a bachelors degree.

I´m not sure this is entirely true. First of all, if you only take 1 or 2 classes per day, those classes are usually very long classes - we are talking up to 3 or 4 hours per class. The 5-6 year estimate for a licenciatura for example is the estimate assuming they take roughly 4-5 hours of class per day (about 4 materias per semester) In reality, if you work full time and study like most Argentines, this degree will most likely take you longer than 5 years, unless you go to a private school (let´s not get into the private school discussion here!)

In order to determine what is undergraduate and what is graduate, first we must look at the bigger system. The English system (used also in the US, Canada, Australia, etc) is based on the 3-4 year undergraduate degree, followed by the 1-2 year master´s degree, followed by the 2+ years doctorate degree. The French system, or licenciate system, (used previously in much of Europe, including Spain, and as follows, most of Latin America, is based on a 4-6 year licenciate, depending on the field, followed by a 2+ year doctorate degree. You go directly from the licenciate to the doctorate. I think this is fundamental. This is why master´s degrees, although becoming more popular now days due to the influence of international education, are not a ´titulo habilitante´ in the sense that they are necessary for you to exercise your profession. The licenciate already does that, and in many fields in the US, it is the master´s degree that does that (although in others the US undergraduate degree is sufficient. For me the undergraduate degree is most comparable to the intermediate degrees that are often given out if you do not finish the last one or two years of the licenciate).

It is truly an interesting topic, and I have taken the liberty to do much research about it, particularly since I was interested in studying in Spain, and had heard that the US does not accept Spanish master´s degrees. Well why not? I wondered. Well because before recently, the Spanish master´s degree was NOT an official part of the system, but rather a little add-on designed by each individual university. Now the Spanish higher education system is in a process of transition to the ¨bachelors-masters-doctorate¨ style system, as you can see on almost any Spanish university´s website (they have info about both licenciatura and ´carreras de grado´, since they are phasing out the licenciatura). I´m pretty sure much of Europe is going through this same change, I was told Germany was for example.

Another important factor to consider is that most licenciaturas require a thesis in order to complete the degree. Almost no US bachelor´s degree requires that (although it is sometimes an option). I cannot comment about English, Australian, etc degrees in this sense, maybe they do. But the point is that these degrees do not permit you to go on directly to do a doctorate degree, while the licenciatura does. My boyfriend is studying Engineering in the UBA, and says that many students receive scholarships to study PhDs in the US after finishing their engineering degree. Granted this is not a licenciatura, but rather an ingeniería, degree, but it is still on the same system and follows most of the same rules.

I personally feel that it is insulting to the extremely difficult work that it is to complete a licenciatura to compare it to a US bachelor´s degree. A US bachelor´s does not typically prepare you to work, since you spend 2 of the 4 years screwing around with ´liberal arts´ or ´global education´ or what be it courses that don´t have anything to do with your field! I find it insulting that the US educators have their heads so far stuck up their bums and can´t imagine that in Argentina there could possibly be a 5-year degree program that does what Americans do in 6 years. Why not? If university in the US is already just a big money-making business, why not make us study longer, and shell out for longer?

 

[Ashley]

maybe I shouldn't have lumped the US into my comment then...but in the UK we finish our general secondary education at 16 (usually beginning it aged 4/5), then specialise in 3 or 4 subjects at A-level (for two years). The grades we get for these exams determine what universities we can enter (you apply at the end of the 1st year of A-levels and are given a "conditional" offer - dependent on you achieving certain grades). University - which for me was 4 years, usually consisted of 3, 2.5 hour classes per day + a dissertation in your final year... When you apply for university, you apply for a course - all the classes you take then correspond to that course (English lit, Maths, Engineering, etc) which I've heard is a lot different from the system in the US.
For some degrees - medicine, for example - the degree is 9-5 teaching hours, for 6 years. To qualify as an engineer, you have to first complete a Bsc in Engineering and then undertake a further 2/3 year course (pretty much like here).
After studying in both the UK and Argentine university system, I'd be a little hacked off if the licenciatura counted as a post-grad, to be honest - as I don't think the level is any higher than the BA/BsC in the UK. Also, here a licenciatura only takes 5/6 years in La UBA - In private universities, it only takes 4! That is no way enough time to qualify for a post-grad degree...

 

[Melilelen]

When you go back to the US what you do is you hire a Credential Evaluation Service such as:
http://www.foreigndegrees.com/home.htm
or check:
http://www.thedegreepeople.com/blog...ential-evaluations-what-is-your-degree-worth/

With their final report you can start the process of getting your state accreditation, or you can present it at work, or put it on your résumé, whatever you need it for.

I did this in order to work in the US and it worked for me. I had graduated at UBA as a paramedic.

I am now studying profesorados ENG/SPA and I am thinking I will do the same thing when I go back to the US to teach Spanish.

I also have a frind who just enrolled in a masters program in Linguistics in a Colorado University and she was a graduate from Lenguas Vivas which is at terciary level, very fine standard but not a college.
She had to fight it with her fists and nails but she encountered someone at her University which knew Lenguas Vivas an recognized it for what it was worth and now she has been admitted to the Masters´program over there.

I think it is all very relative. Colleges in the US will tend to look at your foreign degree suspiciously, mind me, the same way they look at foreigners...
me having been one, can attest to my words...

But persevere and you will win. Trust me on this. What matters is the knowledge you have acquired while you studied here, and what you have made of it and with it..

Good luck

My main reason for coming to live here was not to go back to studying, but I thought it would be a good idea since I am here.

The degree I have isn't really useful, especially not here. Also, trying to build a life here isn't so easy without the right education. I started the whole process for entering the University of Buenos Aires, but then for some pretty complicated reasons I had to stop. Now I am at the point where I would like to try again. But I am feeling a little discouraged. I know a few people who did study abroad programs for a few months at UBA, I know people who are trying to enter UBA, I know people who are currently studying at UBA, but I don't know any foreigners who have actually graduated and have a degree from UBA.

If there are any UBA graduates out there on this forum, what kind of advice could you give? How challenging are their programs? How was the overall experience? I've heard that it's better than a lot of private universities here, is that true? How does it compare to a typical university in the US? I have to take high equivalency exams in Argentine history, literature, geography, and civics, how hard are they to pass? Is a degree from UBA competitive in the job market?

I think I would feel much more encouraged if I could find somebody out there who has already accomplished what I would like to do. For now I am just drowning in a sea of rules, regulations, and paperwork!

Thanks in advance.

 

[laureltp]

Thanks for the responses. I actually am not that worried about what the degree will mean in the US. If I can graduate and find a good job here than as far as I am concerned there is no reason to go back.

UBA is so unorganized though, I am not sure if I can make it through 5 to 6 more years of disorganization and confusion but I think I am willing to give it a try!

 

[irishvan]

For my 2 cents worth.......I have been told that UBA degrees are recognised in Australia, but the private universities arent.