Argentina 2013 Economy

[toongeorges]

2008 -2011 the country grew at 8% approx. and 2012 at 2%. Lots of people got beneffits from that.

The imports restrictions and the dollar cepo actually affects to a very tiny portion of the population, the richest. I dont agree with that measure, but is important to know the range.

The social pyramid is growing from the bottom to the top, enlarging the middle class, which includes the upper middle class, where the majority of us situates.

It has been said to me that the growth also is only affecting a very tiny portion of the population, namely the agriculture monopolies who have been able to export food at higher prices due to rising commodity prices.

I actually heard Argentinian middle class people complain that the middle class is being destroyed, because the Argentinian government is more interested in needy people whose vote they can buy.

 

[Matiasba]

The import problems have affected many industries in Argentina where they have been unable to import what they need to function properly. It doesn't just affect the richest it affects everyone. I wonder how many jobs have gone because the government blocked essential equipment. How much land is lying fallow because the small farmer can't get what he needs.
There have been people here posting about companies unable to get what they need.

True. My mistake. I wanted to say that the cepo dollar affects to the richest only. The imports restrictions indeed stop the industry development and existed because someone had to stop the growth -which means more inflation- and at the same time adjust the balance of trade. It is an insane protectionist measure. As I said, I dont agree with it.

@toongeorge

About the middle class, of course the middle class complains. It happen that the middle class is the majority of this country, and it is very complex. But noone got poorer these years. The reactivation impulsed from the Ks beneffited the pymes which are pure middle class.
The caceroleros complained about corruption, insecurity, imports restrictions, not about the economic situation, It isnt like the cacerorls of 2001 that were emty and didnt have food to put in it. Those protest werent economic.

 

[JamJam]

Part of fixing a problem is realising you have one. For this reason Argentina seems to get left behind in many ways.
Just because things are better than they were when the country had a MASSIVE financial meltdown doesn't mean things are fine.

The country should be doing so much better and its frustrating to see it in the state it is in now.

- A man falling from the window is 'fine' until he hits the ground.

 

[jp]

When people talk about the middle class being destroyed, I'm always curious to know how they define middle class.

I know plenty of people who have incomes that would put them in the top 10% or 5% of households, but they still identify themselves as being "middle class", because they don't consider themselves to be "rich". So long as somebody else is born into millions, or lives a lavish lifestyle they will always claim to be middle class.

According to this study the middle class doubled between 2003 and 2009, thanks in part to the minimum wage:
http://www.lagaceta.com.ar/nota/521057/mercado-laboral/salario-minimo-argentino-mas-poderoso-region.html

There's progress being made, it just isn't being felt by everyone at the moment. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening...

 

[Rich One]

When people talk about the middle class being destroyed, I'm always curious to know how they define middle class.

I know plenty of people who have incomes that would put them in the top 10% or 5% of households, but they still identify themselves as being "middle class", because they don't consider themselves to be "rich". So long as somebody else is born into millions, or lives a lavish lifestyle they will always claim to be middle class.

According to this study the middle class doubled between 2003 and 2009, thanks in part to the minimum wage:
http://www.lagaceta....oso-region.html

There's progress being made, it just isn't being felt by everyone at the moment. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening...

With the official dollar kept artificially low, the local minimum wage in dollars is the highest in the region?? and soon with yearly 25 % increases will exceed the income of the developed countries...!! and then..... you complete the sentence.....

 

[jp]

With the official dollar kept artificially low, the local minimum wage in dollars is the highest in the region??

The study assessed the local minimum wage as the strongest in the region based on its ability to buy goods and services in the local market (purchasing power parity). The minimum wage and lower income wages (especially unionised wages) tend to track or exceed private inflation estimates. Life for people lower down the economic spectrum would seem to be improving. This progress is undoubtedly happening at the expense of people living at the upper end of the spectrum, and I couldn't say if its sustainable in the long term.

 

[camberiu]

This progress is undoubtedly happening at the expense of people living at the upper end of the spectrum, and I couldn't say if its sustainable in the long term.

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."
--Margaret Thatcher

 

[jp]

A quote from Thatcher? Eurgh.

The problem with socialism is that its become a bogeyman for some, associated with failed states and poverty instead of quality of life and prosperity.

Argentina probably aspires to becoming Norway more than it does Cuba.

 

[jp]

Another great quote from Thatcher to put her quote on socialism into perspective:

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families."

 

[sleslie23]

Another great quote from Thatcher to put her quote on socialism into perspective:

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families."

Is that like saying "There is no such thing as a road. Only cars, trucks, and motorcycles."