Argentina 2013 Economy

[camberiu]

Another great quote from Thatcher to put her quote on socialism into perspective:

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families."

Let's put some context on that quote, shall we?

"...too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

 

[scotttswan]

True. My mistake. I wanted to say that the cepo dollar affects to the richest only. The imports restrictions indeed stop the industry development and existed because someone had to stop the growth -which means more inflation- and at the same time adjust the balance of trade. It is an insane protectionist measure. As I said, I dont agree with it.

If you don't agree with it why are you trying to defend it? They wanted to stop the growth to control inflation? :blink:

About the middle class, of course the middle class complains. It happen that the middle class is the majority of this country, and it is very complex. But noone got poorer these years. The reactivation impulsed from the Ks beneffited the pymes which are pure middle class.
The caceroleros complained about corruption, insecurity, imports restrictions, not about the economic situation, It isnt like the cacerorls of 2001 that were emty and didnt have food to put in it. Those protest werent economic.

I saw people being interviewed on 6-7-8 who said they were there because of the economy.

http://en.mercopress.com/2008/07/23/over-11-million-argentines-live-in-poverty-or-indigence

According to consultants SEL poverty in the first half of 2008 now extends to 31.6% of the Argentine population (approximately 40 million) with a 1.3 percentage points increase over the previous six months for a straight third semester running since December 2006. The increase in poverty numbers happens when the Argentine economy has been growing strongly and sustainably for the sixth year running at rates above 8% annually.

Looks like poverty is increasing.... but wait INDEC to the rescue!

However Argentine government statistics show an uninterrupted cycle of falling poverty to 20.6% of the population in the mobile October-March 2008 semester. But these numbers are based on data from Argentina's Statistics and Census Office, Indec, which since 2006 has replaced professional staff by political appointees....

....Poverty in Argentina is measured on the cost of a basic basket of goods and services for a family of four. The report from SEL which works with private inflation also estimates that indigence, those who can't afford the basket of basic staples, has extended to 10.8% of the almost 40 million Argentines, while government figures limit indigence to 5.9%. "Lowering poverty means stabilized prices. This is the most effective social inclusion policy of any government", points out SEL in the conclusions of the report.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Is that like saying "There is no such thing as a road. Only cars, trucks, and motorcycles."

Thatch is also supposed to have said ...... A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.

Can someone cross link through to the other thread about mode of travel in Buenos Aires ... all you bus-riding socialist loosers :lol:

 

[camberiu]

Thatch is also supposed to have said ...... A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.

Can someone cross link through to the other thread about mode of travel in Buenos Aires ... all you bus-riding socialist loosers :lol:

In the age of Google, it is hard to justify such misquotations.....

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher

[background=rgb(255, 231, 204)]A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.[/background]

• Attributed to her in Commons debates, 2003-07-02, column 407 and Commons debates, 2004-06-15 column 697. According to a letter to the Daily Telegraph by Alistair Cooke on 2 November 2006, this sentiment originated with Loelia Ponsonby, one of the wives of 2nd Duke of Westminster who said "Anybody seen in a bus over the age of 30 has been a failure in life". In a letter published the next day, also in the Daily Telegraph, Hugo Vickers claims Loelia Ponsonby admitted to him that she had borrowed it from Brian Howard. There is no solid evidence that Margaret Thatcher ever quoted this statement with approval, or indeed shared the sentiment.

 

[camberiu]

The most bizarre thing to be defending a political figure that I don't even like.....

 

[MikeB12]

I've heard reports that Argentina has enough cash to get through 2013. 2014 there may be big big problems as the country doesn't have the projected cash to meet all their obligations.

The biggest problem is Argentina has to import energy and ran up a bill of 10 billion dollars in 2011. ( 2012, I don't think the final figures are out yet.) They realize they are kind of screwed and are making some small changes to energy policy (maybe too little, too late) along with dollar restrictions so they have the necessary dollars to pay for imports. The changes are paying oil and gas producers more per unit of energy, so they have more incentive to raise production, and also selling off concessions to the shale oil field Vaca Muerta.

That being said it's impossible to predict when and what is going to happen

 

[scotttswan]

That was in 2008

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/01/12/eleven-million-argentines-surviving-on-7-dollars-per-day-according-to-indec

Three Argentines out of ten living in urban areas, an estimated 11.1 million people must survive with less that 35.5 Pesos per day or 1.067 Pesos monthly, according to data from the latest Standing homes’ survey, performed by the country’s stats office Indec.

 

[jp]

Let's put some context on that quote, shall we?

Wow. You think the context of the quote makes it any better or easier to understand? If you wanted to give more context you might want to bring up that poverty and unemployment where at an all time high when she pronounced society to be a myth.

Anyways - to get back to the point.... The Nordic countries all seem to function just fine, despite the fact that tax burdens are amongst the highest in the world.

I'd take the Nordic model over Thatcher's Britain any day.

 

[cbonanni]

Thatch is also supposed to have said ...... A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.

Can someone cross link through to the other thread about mode of travel in Buenos Aires ... all you bus-riding socialist loosers :lol:

PhiilinBSAS ,

OMG !! Mr political correctness !!! How dare you imply that people who must , out of necessity , ride a , a BUS !!! And then you choose to offend these poor oppressed people and label them a "Socialist", no not Socialist !!! Ohh , the horror !! Plus , the closer "loosers" !! How mean and cruel you are to insult these poor innocent people.

Really , I am just kidding , we can all throw our collect Political correctness out the window once in a while !

Thanks for the smile !!

 

[Napoleon]

"Loose" is the opposite of "Tight".

If someone is "Looser" then they are more likely to spend more. Which is the opposite of what someone who is riding the bus would do.

"Loser" is something completely different altogether.

And in other Economic News... http://www.washingto...7acf_story.html