Argentina: A Paradise For Retirees?

[steveinbsas]

Argsteve, Your comments are true. A retiree may fall in love with Buenos Aires however settling into life in Argentina is not nearly as easy as it is in places like Panama or Mexico where the governments encourage Americans to retire and invest their money. Aside from the visa issue, there will be the uncertainties of constantly changing laws, draconian currency restrictions, severe inflation, not knowing from one day to the next what one's money will be worth, the cost of 65+ health insurance which even at the blue rate can not be cheap (and is largely covered by Medicare in the US) . I'd like to know how Jan gets her Social Security payments. If from an ATM machine she will get the official rate with fees on both ends. These and many other things are the realities. Just how wonderful BA is, depends to a large extent on the perception of the individual. If he/she likes the place then fine but the retiree will have to learn how to deal with the complications of life in an unstable country in ways that he or she would not have to in a country like the US. If buying property is part of the scenario, it could be hard to get out if things didn't work out in BA. Having made quite a few trips to retirement areas in Mexico (Ajijic and San Miguel d'Allende) I'd say that BA has nothing similar to offer in terms of a stable and tight-knit expat retirement community. You are really on your own in BA. if that works, fine but a potential BA retiree should not take the article reprinted here too seriously without some very careful investigation

Serigo, with all due respect, I think your post is as "skewed" to the negative as much as the Yahoo article was "skewed" to the positive.

I arrived in Argentina in may of 2006 after living in Sayulita, Nayarit, Mexico for five years. I came for a two month visit and decided to stay. When I first visited Sayulita in 1986 gringos were scarce. By the time I left, the number of gringos in the winter just about equaled the number of Mexicans (1500). There weren't many who lived there year round (the off season is very hot and humid). The requirements for an FM3 visa to live in Mexico year round are very similar to the requirements for the visa rentista and pensionado visa in Argentina. Mexico did not require that the docs receive the Apostille or be translated, but I believe at this time the monthly income requirement in Mexico is about double the income requirement in Argentina. Unlike Mexico, it is not a crime to overstay a visa in Argentina.

I know an individual from the USA who is able to us XOOM to transfer his Social Security benefits (in pesos) to his bank account in Argentina. The only documentation he had to provide was a "benefit verification letter" (available on line) from the Social Security Administration and pdf copies (also available on line) of his bank statements showing the monthly deposits. At an exchange rate of $12.50 USD to one peso, the cost of living in Argentina (at least for me) is about the same as it was in 2006. Some things are actually cheaper in terms of dollars today. My life in Argentina has not been affected by the "constantly changing laws" you refer to. There certainly are occasional changes. One of the "best" was when the resident threshold for the "bienes personles" tax was increased for about $100K to $305K pesos (though that "exemption" would not be "useful" to any property purchased now). The "draconian currency restrictions" have not affected me (I have no plans to sell and "get the money out") and, thanks to XOOM "severe inflation" has not been a serious issue, either. I do not live from one day to the next not knowing what (my) money will be worth. I haven't used an ATM to withdraw money in Argentina in about two years.

Anyone who thinks Mexico is a better place to retire than Argentina should read both constitutions. Even if I applied for Mexican citizenship I would (obviously) always be a gringo and not admired for it in Mexico. I will always be a yankee in Argentina, but no treats me badly because of it (at least not where i now live) . I did not move to my present location to live in a "stable, tight-knit retirement community, I am the only North American living in the area (one kilometer form a "suburban" village of 1500 inhabitants). Nonetheless, I am hardly "on my own." I have good Argentine friends and speak only castellano with all of them. "Just how wonderful" my life in el campo is really does depends on my perception. I believe that my life in Argentina is vastly superior to my life in Mexico or the United States (including the fifteen years: 1975-1990 that I lived in Park City, Utah). Medical care is very good here and the Medicus "expat plan" plan offers very reasonable rates to the age of 70 (still well under the $200 per month level at the blue or the XOOM rate).

Four weeks ago I awoke to find that, as a result of an inner ear problem, my bedroom was spinning, making it impossible to walk (I'll avoid graphic description of the other symptoms). I was able to call a friend who then called for an ambulance (which arrived in about 15 minutes). Shortly after arriving at the emergency room I was I was admitted to the hospital and given a number of tests and medication to control the dizziness. My friend closed his business (an auto-repair shop) and came to the hospital and stayed with me until a few hours later when another (mutual) friend drove me back to my house. The cost to me was zero. If this happened to me in the USA and I had a current (Affordable Care Act approved) health care policy, it would probably have a $6000 dollar deductible clause and (unless, like my old "junk" policy that cost $100 per month and paid 100% of emergency room costs) I might have had to pay the entire cost of my three hour visit to the hospital (in the USA that probably would have been well over $1000...but I'm just guessing). Fortunately, there has been no draconian takeover of the private health insurance system in Argentina and I don't live from one day to the next worrying that something like that might happen.

PS: I couldn't come close to owning a property in the USA like I have in Argentina. The property taxes alone on a 2,5 acre "ranchito" in any desirable location the USA could easily exceed my annual income. (The annual property tax in Argentina is about $100 USD.) In the USA I would also have to "worry" (and I'm not being facetious) about drones flying overhead in search of puddles (following heavy rains) in low lying areas so that the EPA could "enforce" regulations that would allow them to categorize my land as a navigable waterway, including charging me with a felony if I backfilled the puddle with dirt or gravel.​

 

[jantango]

Why do they always have to bring tango into everything? There's more here than tango

You say you like "socializing and meeting cool people" and tango offers it. Besides it's a community of Argentines and expats from around the world who come to Buenos Aires to immerse themselves in the culture of tango that only Buenos Aires offers.

life in Argentina is not nearly as easy as...

uncertainties of constantly changing laws, draconian currency restrictions, severe inflation, not knowing from one day to the next what one's money will be worth...

the cost of 65+ health insurance which even at the blue rate can not be cheap (and is largely covered by Medicare in the US) ...

I'd like to know how Jan gets her Social Security payments.

the retiree will have to learn how to deal with the complications of life...

tight-knit expat retirement community...

You are really on your own in BA.

Who expects life to be easy?

Uncertainties? You only have the present moment.

Health care? It's great here.

I was using the ATM to withdraw my social security benefits until I learned about XOOM on this forum in June 2013. I have savings now and never spend the full benefit amount for living expenses.

Complications of life? Learning each day is why we are here.

Tight-knit expat community? I didn't move here to be with foreigners, although the tango scene has many other retirees who are able to live here on their retirement which they couldn't do in their home countries. And best of all, they're dancing tango every night of the week and socializing with Argentines.

On your own in BA? We are never alone in life no matter where you live. I've learned that living here.

No free concerts in the U.S. or Europe, huh? I have always been a fan of the accessible cultural offerings in Buenos Aires, but that is a ridiculous statement.

I ask family and friends in the USA if there are free concerts there. They told me there aren't. I always paid to attend concerts at Symphony Hall and the Opera House in Chicago. I attended six free concerts this year at Teatro Colon. The number of free concerts in Buenos Aires is incredible, and that's why I post them on this forum. One could attend a free concert every day of the week.

 

[citygirl]

The offerings are incredible here. There are also free concerts in pretty much every city in the world. I would probably tell your friends they should look them up. Here, you mentioned Chicago. And that was with 3 seconds of the google. I'm sure there are many, many more. No shortage of free things:

http://tinyurl.com/n6spxtb

 

[dennisr]

Do not feel like an "over the hill retiree" when I am out and about in Argentina. Always feel welcomed and valued. Intermingling of the generations seems to be the cultural norm here. Go to some Tango event and you will see how normal it is to have young and old doing their thing together. Never see that in other cultures anywhere. Keeps this old man thinking he is young. Given me new life for sure.

 

[nlaruccia]

I fell in love with the city and its people during five visits, long before Buenos Aires was considered a tourist destination, let alone one for retirement. I moved here when there was no expat community.

The article states the truth about the city. So what if it's fluff? The expats who focus on the negatives of Argentina are free to leave at any time.

I live comfortably in my own apartment on my social security benefits. I would be paying rent and have to work if I was in the USA. Buenos Aires IS a place to consider retirement. I attend free concerts here all the time, something you can't find in the USA or Europe. And then there's tango....

In NYC I used to attend the Metropolitan Opera House's free concerts in Central Park every week during the summer. Not to be missed if you're visting. There are free concerts in the States, but there are definitely more in Buenos Aires.There are also a ton of milogas in the US as well.

 

[sergio]

Steve,

I referred to Ajijic and San Miguel in Mexico, both of which have huge expat populations - mostly Americans and Canadians. I've been to both several times. It is a tight knit community with quite a few activities for expats. Living there, for some people, would be more congenial than living in Buenos Aires. They are looking for good weather, reasonable cost and a relatively hassle free lifestyle. It is a matter of personality and personal choice. Life in Argentina is quite different and requires a lot more effort. Someone here made a caustic comment about how they are retired and not stupid. I never called anyone stupid. I pointed out that retirement havens in Mexico and Panama are geared to North Americans.

I stand by what I said about changing laws, currency controls, difficulties buying and selling. It's all become much more complicated under the Kirchners. The easy accessibility of Mexico to the US is another factor that attracts Americans. I did not say that one was better than the other. I pointed out that life in BA is quite different from life in a place like Ajijic and that anyone considering retiring in Argentina should be informed. . The article reprinted here contains some truth but it is misleading in what it leaves out.

I have read your comments over the years and I am happy that you have made a successful move to Argentina. Not everyone, however, has your determination.

 

[syngirl]

No age group has a monopoly on stupid.

Fantastic! Now embroider it on some pillows and sell it on Etsy, I bet you'll get some hipsters buying it that won't recognise the irony in their purchase ;D

 

[Girino]

When we call that article garbage or fluff, it simply means that it bring no added value to the discussion. You could replace the word Buenos Aires with Panama City, and Argentina with Panama, and you would have a shiny new post to publish.

There is a difference between copywriting and journalism, and Yahoo is making this boundary very blurry.
This is why the people are turning to people's online places (such as users' reviews and forums), since you can no longer trust the press.

 

[steveinbsas]

I referred to Ajijic and San Miguel in Mexico, both of which have huge expat populations - mostly Americans and Canadians. I've been to both several times. It is a tight knit community with quite a few activities for expats. Living there, for some people, would be more congenial than living in Buenos Aires. They are looking for good weather, reasonable cost and a relatively hassle free lifestyle. It is a matter of personality and personal choice. Life in Argentina is quite different and requires a lot more effort. Someone here made a caustic comment about how they are retired and not stupid. I never called anyone stupid. I pointed out that retirement havens in Mexico and Panama are geared to North Americans.

I agree with what you wrote here. The difference for me is that I did not move to Mexico to live in an "expat" community, though many could now consider Sayulita to be one that is somewhat intertwined with the local population. I never "hung out" with the Mexicans when I lived there, though a few Mexican friends often joined the "gathering" at a friend's house for morning coffee. Two of my best friends/mentors (twelve and fourteen years older than I am) had homes there. One was married to a local woman and I spent a great deal of time at their house. They were fraternity brothers in college and I had known them since the early 1970's. They knew about Sayulita thanks to a third fraternity brother and the first time I visited Sayulita in 1986 was with one of them. When I moved there in 2000 I had already begun construction on my house. At the time Sayulita was still an "authentic" Mexican fishing village. There weren't even beach chair or umbrella rentals at that time and only a handful of hotels, restaurants, and retail outlets

The last thing I want to do now is (at the age of 64.5) is live in a "retirement haven" with other (often whiny) North Americans. My life here is really quite simple. The greatest effort that is required for me is mowing about 8,000 square meters per week (seven-eight months of the year) and I usually take four days (per week) to do it. I have actually been mowing between posts for the past three hours.

Nothing here is much of a "hassle" for me. I recently opened a new bank account in in less than 20 minutes and I no longer have to deal with migraciones in any way. Getting the new DNI was easy and required very little effort. Picking up Mercado Libre purchases at the nearest OCA location gives me a good reason to go to the nearest town (where I always also visit friends and shop at the grocery store, verdurias, and carneceria). I know where to buy everything I need and I can even make an appointment to see my doctor by sending him a personal email or a message on facebook.

I stand by what I said about changing laws, currency controls, difficulties buying and selling. It's all become much more complicated under the Kirchners. The easy accessibility of Mexico to the US is another factor that attracts Americans. I did not say that one was better than the other. I pointed out that life in BA is quite different from life in a place like Ajijic and that anyone considering retiring in Argentina should be informed. . The article reprinted here contains some truth but it is misleading in what it leaves out.

Of course life in Ajijic and San Miguel are different than life in Bueos Aires. Life in these places in Mexico is also different from life in Mexico City. I am well aware of the fact that it is important to many expats in Mexico to be close to the US but it no longer matters to me as I have no desire to return to the USA. I bought and sold property "under the Kirchners" without any complications and I could even repatriate the funds to the USA (if I sold out now) as I legally transfered the funds into Argentina through the Banco Nacion in 2006.

I couldn't agree more that anyone considering retiring in Argentina should be informed and the article is seriously lacking in conveying the reality of being an expat in Argentina.

I have read your comments over the years and I am happy that you have made a successful move to Argentina. Not everyone, however, has your determination.

It wasn't really very difficult to make a "successful move" to Argentina. Even though I didn't speak much Spanish when I arrived, I had great help getting my residency (which I easily qualified for) and had enough funds available to buy an apartment in Recoleta. After four years in CF I made a successful move to my present location, which, for me is indeed a paradise. Life here certainly isn't "geared" to North Americans, but that's fine with me. I left the North American life behind me fourteen years ago, and I haven't looked back since. Instead of "determined" I would describe myself as "self-motivated" (which you might say leads to determination). Though there are always "outside forces" in play, I lam the one who must determine the course of action I take on a daily basis and it is self motivation that enables me to do so.

 

[khairyexpat]

Nothing here is much of a "hassle" for me.

Steve you´re one of the few exceptions that don´t keep at it 24/7, trying to fix bad economic policies or save architecture that is all in shambles etc etc ....

I´d rather say you´re selfish that you don´t want to change how this God forsaken country is run to the ground !!!!!

Selfish you found something good, .... are you in Argentina?

So ridiculous if I demand the REAL Paris life style with expert government economic policies on my social welfare, fixed income and pension income etc etc ... unbelievable. What is wrong with me?.

Constant nagging is a drag .. gets tiring ... tires everyone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It´s hard enough trying to keep our sanity in the big zoo. ..

Please !!!!!!

Now I´m done with the bong.