Argentina is expensive. Really don't know how middle class here get by

[on the brink]

The vast majority of US government workers don't live in DC but in outlying, far cheaper communities. And, to my knowledge, they are reasonably well paid. However, no salary can keep up with paying several different credit cards a month, plus house mortgage, plus car loans.

 

[Joglide]

Some things are cheaper and some things are not. Rent is cheaper for me here than it would be in a city in the UK (although not really by much), taxis and Uber are cheaper, as is public transport. On the whole, I find Argentina more expensive than the UK. I am paid in dollars too so can compare the two countries directly and I spend more in Argentina to live than I did/would in the UK. Of course, I also lose many of the benefits that living in a more developed country bring as well. I also wonder when I am in a mall how people here afford what they buy. Perhaps a constant juggling act with credit cards spreading payments over months? While we can debate whether its expensive or not, I think it is safe to say value for money is a very rare thing in Argentina.

Interested in your commentary but not so clear what is making Argentina more expensive than UK? Ok some electrical goods and durables imported will be more expensive and cars are not cheaper. The Expatistan comparison of BA and London may be inaccurate but based on current prices it says:


Cost of living in Buenos Aires (Argentina) is 69% cheaper than in London (United Kingdom)

Even leaving out the cost of housing/accommodation it claims food is more than 50% cheaper etc etc. When I am in BA (about to come there) I really do find things relatively cheap due to exchange rates but even last year and the year before eating out, travelling, etc etc were significantly cheaper. You can live comfortably in BA on USD1500 pcm: that is almost impossible in London, where a rental of USD1000 pcm would be considered extremely cheap even for having a roo in a shared house. Not disputing many of the points made here and of course I think middle class families who want private education and university for their children would have to pay a lot but then living in the provinces in Argentina would be much cheaper than almost any equivalent provincial area of UK.

 

[jantango]

 

[Joglide]

Interesting. There seem to be two distinct issues which need to be clearly distinguished: the suffering of the increasing number of people of Argentina, while an affluent minority live very well, and (secondly) and the capacity of ex pats and others to live even more cheaply when they have dollar-based incomes or salaries above the average. Last year the average household income in the UK was £28,400 or 1.37 million pesos at present exchange rate. Argentine income was USD$5,915 (end of 2017) or about 230,000 pesos at exchange rate today. Even taking into account the lower prices an equivalence of 16.8% of UK average household incomes shows how much poorer the majority population is in real terms. Our earlier discussion of relative prices was a different one: about what the fixed amount of money will buy you in both countries. Those of us fortunate enough not to have to rely on Macri policies or local employment see some of the effects of desperation on the streets but it looks like we remain relatively privileged?

 

[sergio]

Yes, most expats are privileged compared to Argentines. First of all, most expats live in Buenos Aires in the wealthiest parts of town and have at best very superficial contact with the poor or working class who live in neighborhoods far from the center. True, they might employ these people to clean their apartments or do some work around the house but few have ever been in their homes or ride packed trains and buses for a couple of hours each way to get to their jobs. Few wait for hours and hours to be attended at a public hospital. They don't have experience with the struggles of the majority just to get by. They don't have to sell pencils on the Mitre line or worse to eke out a living. The purpose of being in Argentina for most is to enjoy the benefits of a relatively cosmopolitan city while paying less than they would back in the US, UK or whatever other developed country they come from. There are those expats who are in relationships with Argentines who are working harder than they would back home, living worse materially (whether they are better off existentially depends on the person) and often experiencing a lot of stress they might not in their home country (I know a couple who had early heart attacks which I suspect were brought on by the stress the country caused them) but even these people are almost always better off than the great majority. And they usually have the option of leaving which few Argentines have. That alone, the knowledge that you have an escape, can give a person some relief. So far I haven't met an American or European who lives in villa 31.

 

[TWB103]

Its interesting that the biggest expat defenders of Argentina are the ones with financial security and have the true ability to up sticks whenever they feel like. I would say there are many expats who can't just hop on a plane and escape when it gets too much. They are 'trapped' in one sense or another and are pretty miserable as a result.

 

[bigbadwolf]

but most people in the USA have had zero savings and a stagnant income for over 20 years.

Not even stagnant. The purchasing power of the bottom 85% has been going down for decades. The reason this isn't discussed more widely is because of the credence given to the bogus inflation figures reported by the US government. I would argue that over the last quarter of a century, prices have tripled in the US (the precise number you get depends of course on the basket of goods and services you choose). The mendacity of the US government resides in arbitrarily replacing any commodity in its basket that threatens to increase the inflation rate. Thus if the price of steak goes up, it gets replaced with hamburger meat, and will one fine day be replaced with canned dog food. The official rate thus measure the increase in nominal prices required to maintain a deteriorating standard of living.