Argentina is expensive. Really don't know how middle class here get by

[Ries]

Haven’t read everything, but i think what you are getting at is that people don’t save here. Imagine you lived pay check to pay check in the US with only your 401k to fall back on. You would be poor instantly at retirement. That’s what happens here. Also, people have subsidized living as a local. They have discounts for everything using credit cards. They also can live with their parents until their 30s or get money from them. It’s a dependant lifestyle. Either on the State or the family.

78% of Americans in the USA currently live paycheck to paycheck.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/shu...n-5-us-workers-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html

and only 32% of americans have a 401k.
And most of those have very little money in their 401K.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx

which means that US citizens are as bad, or worse, off, as you are saying Argentines are.

This is a global problem, not an Argentine one.
At least Argentine parents will let their kids live with them.
Although, as the parent of adult children, I can say I know many Americans my age who have had their adult children move back in- due to financial setbacks, health problems, divorces, job losses, and so on.

 

[Voiceofreason]

78% of Americans in the USA currently live paycheck to paycheck.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/shu...n-5-us-workers-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html

and only 32% of americans have a 401k.
And most of those have very little money in their 401K.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx

which means that US citizens are as bad, or worse, off, as you are saying Argentines are.

This is a global problem, not an Argentine one.
At least Argentine parents will let their kids live with them.
Although, as the parent of adult children, I can say I know many Americans my age who have had their adult children move back in- due to financial setbacks, health problems, divorces, job losses, and so on.

Actually what you quoted is misleading. It is a survey of workers so it really says little about the US as a whole. Also, the 32% with a 401k is a lot. Remember it is not mandatory and only few companies offer it. We had something similar here before CFK, but it was stolen by congress. Also keep in mind savings in Argentina are confiscated by the State through high cronic inflation, high taxes (retirement paychecks pay earnings tax of up to 35%), FX depreciation, debt default, new laws, stock market volatility and people (mostly cops or ex-cops) coming into your home and stealing your cash savings. The US offers a ton of ways to build your net worth and retire with a decent passive income stream with a middle class salary. The BLS states that average retiree households make $48k pre-tax a year. That is a pretty good average. Also, keep in mind that people living woth their parents in Argentina are also in the ABC1 segment which includes the highest wage earners in the country. I expect C level executives and business owners in the US don’t have a retirement issue. Here, not so much...

 

[Ries]

ahh- "workers", are as far as I know, the people who get paychecks.
The US as a whole? like the people who dont work?
Are they somehow more financially solvent?

Sorry, that makes no sense.
People in the USA have one of the lowest savings rates of the industrialized nations.
Your big critique of Argentina was "people dont save here".
Same as the USA.

I dont know what a "C level" executive is, but most people in the USA have had zero savings and a stagnant income for over 20 years.
You are making up stories to make Argentina look bad.
In reality, global financial trends are similar in both countries, and all but the very wealthy are getting screwed.

 

[semigoodlookin]

Also:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/15/bankrate-65-percent-of-americans-save-little-or-nothing.html

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/mo...even-if-they-make-more-than-100000-a-yea.html

As Ries says, this is a global problem where people are saving less and less. I think people are much more willing to wait and see these days and live beyond their means. Although, it is correct that Argentines rely heavily on family, especially for living arrangements.

 

[tangobob]

Also:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/15/bankrate-65-percent-of-americans-save-little-or-nothing.html

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/mo...even-if-they-make-more-than-100000-a-yea.html

As Ries says, this is a global problem where people are saving less and less. I think people are much more willing to wait and see these days and live beyond their means. Although, it is correct that Argentines rely heavily on family, especially for living arrangements.

I think it may be a global problem, but with inflation at over 40% saving by any means is all but impossible.

 

[on the brink]

Unlike people in the US, many Argentines in all walks of life own their homes, however small and ugly. They have no mortgages to pay, no car payments, no credit cards. People only own what they managed to pay for. That's their way to save, in an unpredictable economy.

But many in the US live paycheck to paycheck, with multiple credit card debts. That's why a one month government shutdown drives well-paid Federal employees to the soup lines...! In Washington, DC, no less.

 

[Voiceofreason]

ahh- "workers", are as far as I know, the people who get paychecks.
The US as a whole? like the people who dont work?
Are they somehow more financially solvent?

Sorry, that makes no sense.
People in the USA have one of the lowest savings rates of the industrialized nations.
Your big critique of Argentina was "people dont save here".
Same as the USA.

I dont know what a "C level" executive is, but most people in the USA have had zero savings and a stagnant income for over 20 years.
You are making up stories to make Argentina look bad.
In reality, global financial trends are similar in both countries, and all but the very wealthy are getting screwed.

They surveyed 3,462 workers and suddenly 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Nonsense. More like 2700 workers and then extrapolate to all workes and pray the sample size is representative. Read the survey and you’ll see a different picture. It says that less than 10% of people earning $100k+ live paycheck to paycheck for example. The point here is that the US gives you multiple opportunities to save and grow your savings while Argentina doesn’t. I don’t see a FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement in Argentina any time this century. As i said, the Bureau of Labor Statistics clearly shows that retirees in the US have on average a pre tax income more than three times the per capita income of Argentina and they just about have two cars each. The numbers are staggering. Beyond that, they also might have some money in the bank. In Argentina there is nothing! The max social security payment is capped at about US $1500 a month for private sector workers. Only the highest paid workers would recieve that. About 60% of retirees in Argentina recieve US $250 a month. Not to mention 30% of the population are poor and earn less than US $700 a month. This means 60% of retirees are poor based solely on their social security payments. Social security is the only retirement plan available in Argentina as congress made ANSES a monopoly for retirement plans. The Melbourne Mercer Global Pension Index puts Argentina dead last out of 34 countries. As i said, there is no argument. Argentina is a terrible place to try to build a nest egg and worst still if you want to keep it.

 

[camberiu]

As i said, there is no argument. Argentina is a terrible place to try to build a nest egg and worst still if you want to keep it.

Username checks out.

 

[Fiscal]

78% of Americans in the USA currently live paycheck to paycheck.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/shu...n-5-us-workers-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html

and only 32% of americans have a 401k.
And most of those have very little money in their 401K.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx

which means that US citizens are as bad, or worse, off, as you are saying Argentines are.

This is a global problem, not an Argentine one.
At least Argentine parents will let their kids live with them.
Although, as the parent of adult children, I can say I know many Americans my age who have had their adult children move back in- due to financial setbacks, health problems, divorces, job losses, and so on.

Given salaries in the us, I'm sure many of those living paycheck to paycheck are doing because of their own lifestyle decisions. My secretary in Los Angeles makes about 90k a year. She doesn't live a life of luxury by any means but it is possible to save on that salary, even in LA. Is her quality of life better than it would in the US? I don't know. But she definitely could not afford to eat at a Pani-equivalent every day.

By contrast, someone working at Walmart is most definitely living paycheck to paycheck.

Where Argentina definitely has the US beat is that many middle class Americans are one health crisis away from bankruptcy.

 

[Fiscal]

Unlike people in the US, many Argentines in all walks of life own their homes, however small and ugly. They have no mortgages to pay, no car payments, no credit cards. People only own what they managed to pay for. That's their way to save, in an unpredictable economy.

But many in the US live paycheck to paycheck, with multiple credit card debts. That's why a one month government shutdown drives well-paid Federal employees to the soup lines...! In Washington, DC, no less.

DC is a really expensive place to live. And US government workers in high cost of living cities often struggle to make it to the end of the month, especially if they are lower paid like presumably a TSA agent is. Even federal prosecutors - one of the most prestigious jobs in federal government -- have a hard time making it to the end of the month.