Argentina to pay 16 billion USD in damages over YPF nationalization

[MilHojas]

Argentina found liable for $16bn in damages over oil group nationalisation | Financial Times

Decision is the culmination of a legal fight waged by former YPF shareholders funded by Burford Capital

www.ft.com

Archived version

 

[Redpossum]

Getting a judgement against Argentina is one thing, getting Argentina to pay you is something else.
Headline of article cited above says the former, title of this thread says the latter.

Expropiación de YPF: un fallo a favor de los buitres | La República Argentina deberá pagar hasta 16.000 millones de dólares si el resultado se mantiene firme

La jueza Loretta Preska resolvió a favor de los argumentos del fondo buitre Burford para calcular el daño económico en el juicio por la nacionalización de YPF. La oposición hizo uso político del fallo y el gobierno apelará.

www-pagina12-com-ar.translate.goog

The usual Google Translate deal, banner is in Castellano and story will initially appear in that tongue, but wait a few seconds and it will change to English.

 

[lunar]

Getting a judgement against Argentina is one thing, getting Argentina to pay you is something else.

Oh, really? Doesn't the Argentine government have accounts in U.S. banks? Doesn't Aerolíneas Argentinas fly to Miami?
It may not be an appropriate time to even consider dollarization.

 

[Redpossum]

Oh, really? Doesn't the Argentine government have accounts in U.S. banks? Doesn't Aerolíneas Argentinas fly to Miami?
It may not be an appropriate time to even consider dollarization.

I didn't say it was impossible, I just said it is another thing.
To the first line of your comment, one word - appeal
To the second line, I emphatically agree. Dollarization is a fantasy, based upon looking back 30 years with rose-colored glasses.

 

[earlyretirement]

Argentina Does what it wants without thinking about the Repurcussions

This is a good example of something that happened because Argentina did something stupid. You don't go around stealing people's money (YPF).The moron Axel Kicillof who is the governor of Buenos Aires said this in 2012 "only morons would think that the state is stupid enough to play by Repsol's rules and offer to buy 100% of is shares", when he spearheaded the YPF nationalization. Look what happens when you to stupid stuff like this.

Now connect the dots for those of you playing at home. I've said long before
Milei got his advisor that mentioned that a big amnesty was necessary. We've been pointing that out for a while and what got us excited about Milei. Think about it. A big amnesty to get US $ flowing into Argentina and out from under the mattresses. You need a disruptive guy like Milei that isn't afraid of upending things. Then you do a big amnesty that will bring in funds.Now look, look at this $16 BILLION judgement from the YPF group. Argentina lost and if they appeal it will probably cost them $2 billion more fighting. Argentina doesn't have this cash. So somehow this group gets stuck "investing" in Argentina in one shape or another. Now remember the billions from the amnesty helps rebuilt the economy in Argentina. And systemic change isn't possible without changing the laws.

Again, you have Milei to shake things up and offer proper reforms that will offer LONG lasting systemic change. It's the only way.AND we would advise Milei (and we welcome to join your advisory counsel), that you do a "Golden Visa" program. You grant anyone that invests $XXX,XXX into your country in various categories (could be setting up a new business, partnering and investing in an EXISTING Argentina business, real estate investment, etc). You grant a Golden Visa that gives that person permanent residency in Argentina. However, I'd encourage it to exclude them from ever having to pay asset taxes in Argentina (bienes personales) of assets they own OUTSIDE of Argentina. That would attract so much investment! It would attract so much positive press and respected sources like the Economist have already announced Buenos Aires as one of the Top Digital Nomad cities around the world.


@JMilei would be famous the world over for his innovative solutions. For bringing the world and money from all over the world into Argentina. You could help that foreign money develop communities all over Argentina and spur their economy. Restaurants and stores and other small businesses would get opened as a result all over the country.


In the USA, it's too expensive. Many can't afford to buy groceries right now. While the US government is spending billions of dollars in the Ukraine, it's own citizens are starving and can't afford to live. (This reminds me of Argentina spending money it doesn't have).You also offer some residency options for foreigners so they can retire here and afford a decent quality of life.

You can make it mandatory that they purchase healthcare insurance and some other conditions but you can instantly attract retirees from all over the world that can't afford to live in their countries (USA, Canada, UK, Australia, and many other countries).Now add A + B with these investor groups getting a "piece" of Argentina. They aren't going to want to see no return or pay back. You can create win/win situations after Milei is President. https://reuters.com/legal/us-judge-rules-against-argentina-following-ypf-payout-trial-2023-09-08/ and

https://clarin.com/economia/fallo-expropiacion-ypf-alternativas-argentina-ahora_0_4Ne5f8PQNf.html

 

[lunar]

Milei got his advisor that mentioned that a big amnesty was necessary. We've been pointing that out for a while and what got us excited about Milei. Think about it. A big amnesty to get US $ flowing into Argentina and out from under the mattresses. You need a disruptive guy like Milei that isn't afraid of upending things.

Argentine gov't proposes tax amnesty

ARGENTINA ECONOMY

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Buenos Aires, May 27 2016 (EFE). —
President Mauricio Macri announced Friday that he will send to Congress a tax amnesty bill intended to encourage people to repatriate money stashed abroad.

It's the only way.AND we would advise Milei (and we welcome to join your advisory counsel), that you do a "Golden Visa" program.

Basically, anyone who wants to can live in Argentina; there's no need for a "Golden Visa" program.

It would attract so much positive press and respected sources like the Economist have already announced Buenos Aires as one of the Top Digital Nomad cities around the world

Many digital nomads are poor kids making money by freelancing on sites like Fiverr. Maybe they will spend some money in coffee shops, but so much for a systemic change.

@JMilei would be famous the world over for his innovative solutions. For bringing the world and money from all over the world into Argentina. You could help that foreign money develop communities all over Argentina and spur their economy. Restaurants and stores and other small businesses would get opened as a result all over the country.

Dreaming or wishing for something doesn't make it a reality. If you tell a convincing story about unicorns, it does not make them magically appear.

Implementing reforms is a difficult and painful process. In the history of this country, many people who were smarter than Milei attempted to achieve this and failed. Having a funny hair does not give him a lot of advantage.

 

[Redpossum]

Argentina Does what it wants without thinking about the Repurcussions

This is a good example of something that happened because Argentina did something stupid.

You're absolutely right. Menem was an idiot to privatize YPF in 1999

In the USA, it's too expensive. Many can't afford to buy groceries right now. While the US government is spending billions of dollars in the Ukraine, it's own citizens are starving and can't afford to live.

Again, I agree 100%, but we risk getting into US politics, and historically that's been a really bad idea in these forums.

https://clarin.com/economia/fallo-expropiacion-ypf-alternativas-argentina-ahora_0_4Ne5f8PQNf.html

Ahhh, now I see your problem. You've been reading Clarin!
Personally, my opinion of the whole Clarin media empire is the same as Milei's opinion of Socialists.

 

[gracielle]

My extended family, friends and neighbors. who reside in the SF Bay Area and in Europe, have been bombarding me with questions about Milei since the results following the PASO. I have been forwarding to everyone this article:
21 August 2023

Javier Milei says he's the future of Argentina. He looks a lot like its past.

How right-wing economists like Milton Friedman inspired the surging presidential candidate.

www.motherjones.com

Along with my commentary:
He has a greater chance of winning the presidential election this year than Trump in 2024. Milei spouts at length about his government project. ARG cannot be governed by authoritarianism because it would be the same as now but from the extreme right. His arrogant personality is compounded by emotional instability issues. Example, he claims to "speak through a medium with his dead dog who advises him from beyond the grave". He is not one who embraces dialogue and the notion of consensus. If elected, his party will most likely not achieve a majority in either the Senate or the House of Representatives to pass the laws required by the Constitution to make good on most of his campaign promises. What then? I plan to sit tight and wait for the other shoe to drop. I did not vote for Milei in the mandatory primaries. I certainly will not vote for him in the general election. In the case of a runoff, if the two remaining candidates are Milei and Massa, I will not cast my vote,

Click anywhere on the article in Spanish to open the menu. Next click on Translate to English.
3 August 2023.

Elecciones 2023: de cuánto es la multa por no votar en las PASO

El ciudadano que no se presente a votar en las primarias de este domingo y no pueda justificar su ausencia, recibirá una sanción económica. Cómo verificar infracciones pendientes antes de los comicios

www.infobae.com

....How much is the fine for not voting in PASO 2023? (Also applies to the general election as well as runoff). As stated in article 125 of the National Constitution, “a fine of $50 to $500 pesos will be imposed on the voter over 18 and under 70 years of age who stops casting their vote and does not justify their absence before the Justicia Nacional Electoral within (60) days of the respective election.” It should be noted that those citizens who do not pay this fine will be registered as offenders. This implies that they cannot carry out procedures for a year, such as obtaining a passport, and they cannot be appointed to perform public functions or jobs for three years from the election....

 

[earlyretirement]

This is also ESSENTIAL reading about this YPF case - https://www.bowtiedmara.io/p/ypf-th...ntury?r=n12x&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post

 

[Quilombo]

The message goes far beyond the dollarization proposal promoted by Javier Milei. The world of finance is clear that today there is no possibility of negotiating million-dollar loans to carry out such a bet. Argentina has been left without external credit for several years now, it also has no room to increase internal debt and some time ago the last remaining option to plug the financial holes was exhausted: monetary issuance.

Wall Street bankers made it clear to Milei's emissaries that credit to Argentina in the financial markets is equivalent to zero, which in turn generates strong uncertainties regarding the possibility of implementing a polarization scheme.

https://www.infobae.com/economia/20...s-de-milei-para-la-argentina-no-hay-un-dolar/

Makes sense. We currently owe the IMF 44.5 Billion, the BCRA reserves are negative, we now owe the holdouts 16 Billion for YPF, and we still need 45 Billion to dollarize. As I've been saying ad nauseam: where is the money coming from? And if the answer is it's the money under the mattresses, I have bad news, 40% of the country lives in poverty, and what little remains of the middle class doesn't have tens of thousands of dollars in cash, so unless Milei is going to send the PFA in to peoples' homes in Puerto Madero looking for cash, he needs to stop lying about us dollarizing, explain where the dollars are coming from, or that it will be a violent and painful process, and people better get prepared for it, because we can't carry over 100 Billion dollars in debt as a country, even if we somehow got the loans.