Argentina Versus Colombia to Retire

[earlyretirement]

I agree. It's hard to know one way or the other. That's my point. People around here (this board) regularly express supreme confidence on the matter, when at best it can only be a hunch or educated guess based on whatever criteria each one uses to think about the matter.

Oh NO, I'm not claiming to be some expert. I'm far from that on this matter. I've never claimed to be an expert on this. And no one is saying the locals aren't fearing it. All my Porteño friends that own real estate in the USA, have bank accounts, etc. are all very scared. I'm not saying that. I'm more talking about the typical American that got a DNI and retired.

I'm just saying that I've never in my 20+ years and many hundreds of clients that are all foreigners and have DNI's. I've never heard of even one case where Argentina tried to claim a % in asset tax from assets they held abroad. I'm not saying this will never happen. But OP doesn't come across as someone that has to worry too much about this.

Remember that Argentina has had several "tax amnesties" where they allowed locals that were hiding their cash abroad to pay %X and bring it back to Argentina. They were promised that they wouldn't get prosecuted. A shit ton came back into the country. They did this a few times. It's partly why the real estate market peaked in 2019. So much funds came back and IIRC, one of the conditions is they had to invest it in real estate or a local business. Needless to say a lot bought real estate.

Argentina will go after the easy fish. JMHO. Has anyone on this forum known any Ex-pat with DNI OR a local Argentine that were ever penalized or threatened by the Argentina government for assets they held abroad? I don't. And I mean personally heard the story. Not hearsay.

As far as Brazil. Yes, I much prefer Brazil vs. Colombia for everyday living. Honestly, if they spoke Spanish there I'd probably never have gotten married. I doubt I would have left Brazil. I still own a property in Rio. Although I studied Portuguese and conversational, it's a tough language. Also, Rio is super expensive now. Cost of living is very expensive there.

But the girls there are world class.

oddDistribution - what are your top 5 priorities for living? What is the most important criteria to you? Is it cost of living, beautiful girls, safety, things to do, cultural events, dining out? Etc? That is going to dictate where the best place to live is.​

​

I always suggest people figure out their top 5 list and then go backwards. Because if it's just for dating and where the hottest girls are. It's an easy decision and you will end up in Brazil or Colombia.​

​

I still say the best thing to do is find a keeper in Colombia. Live there and really figure out if she is the one. And then move to Buenos Aires. Colombians can easily live in Argentina and easily get permanent residency here. What I did after I got married is I moved my wife's entire family down to Buenos Aires as family is very important to Colombians. I'm talking mother, father, sister, brother. They never wanted to go back to Colombia if that gives you an idea how great Buenos Aires is. Quite honestly, and to be a bit blunt... Colombia is a shit hole compared to Argentina in most aspects.​

Plus an added benefit is they all went to college in Argentina. Schools are much better, much safer, much higher quality of life. It wasn't necessarily cheap as they were all on the "payroll" for a while but happy wife = happy life.

In my experience, most Colombias once they leave Colombia never want to go back (except to visit family). There is no real reason to go back other than visit family. Brazilians love their country and very passionate about it. They can leave but they always want to go back. Not just to visit family but just because they love Brazil.

 

[oddDistribution]

Oh NO, I'm not claiming to be some expert. I'm far from that on this matter. I've never claimed to be an expert on this. And no one is saying the locals aren't fearing it. All my Porteño friends that own real estate in the USA, have bank accounts, etc. are all very scared. I'm not saying that. I'm more talking about the typical American that got a DNI and retired.

I'm just saying that I've never in my 20+ years and many hundreds of clients that are all foreigners and have DNI's. I've never heard of even one case where Argentina tried to claim a % in asset tax from assets they held abroad. I'm not saying this will never happen. But OP doesn't come across as someone that has to worry too much about this.

Remember that Argentina has had several "tax amnesties" where they allowed locals that were hiding their cash abroad to pay %X and bring it back to Argentina. They were promised that they wouldn't get prosecuted. A shit ton came back into the country. They did this a few times. It's partly why the real estate market peaked in 2019. So much funds came back and IIRC, one of the conditions is they had to invest it in real estate or a local business. Needless to say a lot bought real estate.

Argentina will go after the easy fish. JMHO. Has anyone on this forum known any Ex-pat with DNI OR a local Argentine that were ever penalized or threatened by the Argentina government for assets they held abroad? I don't. And I mean personally heard the story. Not hearsay.

As far as Brazil. Yes, I much prefer Brazil vs. Colombia for everyday living. Honestly, if they spoke Spanish there I'd probably never have gotten married. I doubt I would have left Brazil. I still own a property in Rio. Although I studied Portuguese and conversational, it's a tough language. Also, Rio is super expensive now. Cost of living is very expensive there.

But the girls there are world class.

oddDistribution - what are your top 5 priorities for living? What is the most important criteria to you? Is it cost of living, beautiful girls, safety, things to do, cultural events, dining out? Etc? That is going to dictate where the best place to live is.​

​

I always suggest people figure out their top 5 list and then go backwards. Because if it's just for dating and where the hottest girls are. It's an easy decision and you will end up in Brazil or Colombia.​

​

I still say the best thing to do is find a keeper in Colombia. Live there and really figure out if she is the one. And then move to Buenos Aires. Colombians can easily live in Argentina and easily get permanent residency here. What I did after I got married is I moved my wife's entire family down to Buenos Aires as family is very important to Colombians. I'm talking mother, father, sister, brother. They never wanted to go back to Colombia if that gives you an idea how great Buenos Aires is. Quite honestly, and to be a bit blunt... Colombia is a shit hole compared to Argentina in most aspects.​

Plus an added benefit is they all went to college in Argentina. Schools are much better, much safer, much higher quality of life. It wasn't necessarily cheap as they were all on the "payroll" for a while but happy wife = happy life.

In my experience, most Colombias once they leave Colombia never want to go back (except to visit family). There is no real reason to go back other than visit family. Brazilians love their country and very passionate about it. They can leave but they always want to go back. Not just to visit family but just because they love Brazil.

Here's the breakdown for me in order of priority.

Cost of living: Has to be low in order for me to retire early in the first place. I also want to be able to have a decent lifestyle with my budget and some buffer in case things don't go as planned. The 3k amount has to cover everything including medical, taxes, GF/wife, travel back to the US once a year, etc. (I don't have luxurious tastes) I think it's the case that both countries meet this requirement though.

Dating: Not much to say for this one.

Things to do/Restaurants: I don't want to be bored where ever I am. So, I want to be able to go out to restaurants and/or a shows/events, etc. It doesn't have to be the best possible stuff though. There just has to be a variety of decent things to do. I've a lot of access to the best quality shows/restaurants in the US, so I've had my fill in a sense. Also, I can mix in other places with occasional travel around South America.

Safety: For better or worse, I have a high risk tolerance for this. I've traveled enough to know where not to go and what not to do. Obviously, the place cannot be truly unsafe or that's out of the question.

I feel like from what I'm hearing the better fit would be Colombia. At least to start out to try to meet someone.

 

[charlesfradley]

I have not been to either country, but research from the standpoint of natural disasters .... it looks like Argentina is almost immune from natural disasters, i.e., no earthquakes (except near Andes) and no hurricanes. Colombia is a seismically active country, earthquake risk.

 

[earlyretirement]

Here's the breakdown for me in order of priority.

Cost of living: Has to be low in order for me to retire early in the first place. I also want to be able to have a decent lifestyle with my budget and some buffer in case things don't go as planned. The 3k amount has to cover everything including medical, taxes, GF/wife, travel back to the US once a year, etc. (I don't have luxurious tastes) I think it's the case that both countries meet this requirement though.

Dating: Not much to say for this one.

Things to do/Restaurants: I don't want to be bored where ever I am. So, I want to be able to go out to restaurants and/or a shows/events, etc. It doesn't have to be the best possible stuff though. There just has to be a variety of decent things to do. I've a lot of access to the best quality shows/restaurants in the US, so I've had my fill in a sense. Also, I can mix in other places with occasional travel around South America.

Safety: For better or worse, I have a high risk tolerance for this. I've traveled enough to know where not to go and what not to do. Obviously, the place cannot be truly unsafe or that's out of the question.

I feel like from what I'm hearing the better fit would be Colombia. At least to start out to try to meet someone.

Your #1 priority is cost of living and that will be Argentina by a long shot. Same with things (there aren't too many things to do in most Colombian cities. I mean there are a few things but you will quickly get bored doing the same things and going to the same places over and over) restaurants and safety also go to Argentina.

I'm not sure about healthcare costs in Colombia but in Argentina it's cheap and VERY good. Get a OSDE plan preferably 410 if you can. It will still be cheap if you're in your early 40's. Colombia actually is expensive in many things. I'm not sure how some locals do it there. Dining out, utilities for your apartment will be at least double in Colombia.

Really the ONLY thing Colombia comes out ahead is dating. That's it.

Your budget of $3,000 is decent but I didn't know it included going home once a year. That's going to be really expensive from Argentina. Flights are crazy expensive there the past few years. I recently went and it was $2,200 US dollars for each ticket and we flew down with family of 5 so that adds up. Plus the money you will spend in the USA. Do yourself a spreadsheet and put every possible expense on it. Be realistic with your budget.

Here is mine from when I retired:

 

[oddDistribution]

Your #1 priority is cost of living and that will be Argentina by a long shot. Same with things (there aren't too many things to do in most Colombian cities. I mean there are a few things but you will quickly get bored doing the same things and going to the same places over and over) restaurants and safety also go to Argentina. Really the ONLY thing Colombia comes out ahead is dating. That's it.

I think I should have worded what I wrote a bit differently. What I was trying to say is that cost of living is like a threshold thing. As long as I can afford it then it passes the test. Both Colombia and Argentina should pass the test even if Argentina is more affordable.

I think what you said earlier about meeting someone in Colombia and then moving to Argentina makes a lot of sense. That's like my high level take away from this super helpful conversation. To start out with Colombia with the understanding of the drawbacks versus Argentina.

I have a meeting with an attorney from Bogata to talk about visa options to live there. I think it may be harder to get than Argentina, but should be doable with legal help. We'll see what she says though.

 

[ashton]

I think I should have worded what I wrote a bit differently. What I was trying to say is that cost of living is like a threshold thing. As long as I can afford it then it passes the test. Both Colombia and Argentina should pass the test even if Argentina is more affordable.

I think what you said earlier about meeting someone in Colombia and then moving to Argentina makes a lot of sense. That's like my high level take away from this super helpful conversation. To start out with Colombia with the understanding of the drawbacks versus Argentina.

I have a meeting with an attorney from Bogata to talk about visa options to live there. I think it may be harder to get than Argentina, but should be doable with legal help. We'll see what she says though.

Bogota on 3k/mo will be tight if you want medium-high comfort levels. It's doable, but rent alone will eat likely eat half of this assuming you want to live in the rich bubble. BA I think my avg spend is like $1500-1600/mo and that's to include a nice apt in a top area, chef cooking all my food, dates / going out, etc. It's actually difficult to spend money here.

Also, the note on bringing a colombiana to Buenos Aires is awful advice. Will not elaborate much beyond latinos from other countries seem to have a tendency to adapt to the local argentine ways and change once they land in EZE. It's weird but I've seen it time and time again.

 

[ashton]

But anyway, the move is to just spend 3-6 months in each and decide what you like more.

 

[earlyretirement]

I think I should have worded what I wrote a bit differently. What I was trying to say is that cost of living is like a threshold thing. As long as I can afford it then it passes the test. Both Colombia and Argentina should pass the test even if Argentina is more affordable.

I think what you said earlier about meeting someone in Colombia and then moving to Argentina makes a lot of sense. That's like my high level take away from this super helpful conversation. To start out with Colombia with the understanding of the drawbacks versus Argentina.

I have a meeting with an attorney from Bogata to talk about visa options to live there. I think it may be harder to get than Argentina, but should be doable with legal help. We'll see what she says though.

Sure, of course the #1 priority is to make sure you can afford it. But don't discount what people are saying. Buenos Aires is going to be half as cheap (or even more than 1/2 as cheap) than most cities in Colombia. Easily.

For Argentina residency you can contact - https://argentinaresidency.com/. They are really good honest people. Lorena did mine over 20 years ago. She has helped many of my friends and clients over the years. Tell her Earl Lee says hello.

These days there are a lot of blogs and YouTube videos from ex-pats with how much they are spending so do some research or feel free to ask here. There are a lot of friendly, helpful and acknowledgeable people on this forum.

Also, one thing I forgot to mention that is VERY IMPORTANT and something that you should be honest about yourself moving to Colombia is do you want kids? Because that can totally throw off your retirement plans completely! I can't tell you how many friends I have that have moved to Brazil or Colombia to say they never want kids. Or they never want MORE kids (kids from a previous marriage). They are all ready to be selfish and take care of themselves or their girlfriend.

Only to start dating and then these Colombianas instinctively want to be moms and have kids. You're early 40's so I assume your dating range in Colombia will be mid/late 20's to early 30's. I doubt you will want to date anyone your age. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But trust me. In Colombia you're going to be dating younger. Girls there gravitate towards older guys than them.

And many of these girls in their late 20's to early 30's that don't have kids will feel their biological clock ticking. You definitely will fall in love eventually and you just have to be careful in retirement planning because that can totally throw things off. Kids are damn expensive. I don't care which country you're in!

So many of my friends even ones living in the USA that met Colombian girls here and married them are in this situation. With Colombianas you almost almost date younger. Even if you're not looking to. My best friend in the USA met a Colombiana here in the USA. He fell in love and they got married. My friend is 53 and his wife is 36. And what do you know she wants kids. That's why she divorced her first husband because he didn't want kids. So even though my friend had a vasectomy, he got It reversed and the deal is at least they will try. He is dreading having more kids as he already has 2 kids and hard to think about starting all over.

The very positive thing is Colombian women are the absolute best mothers and wives. They dote on you. They take care of you and your children. They love sex and it's mind-blowing good. Unlike any other women out there. So in that respect if it happens you're in good hands. The downside is kids are freaking expensive. So keep that in the back of your mind going in to this and don't say I didn't tell you "I told you". Ha, ha.

Bogota on 3k/mo will be tight if you want medium-high comfort levels. It's doable, but rent alone will eat likely eat half of this assuming you want to live in the rich bubble. BA I think my avg spend is like $1500-1600/mo and that's to include a nice apt in a top area, chef cooking all my food, dates / going out, etc. It's actually difficult to spend money here.

Also, the note on bringing a colombiana to Buenos Aires is awful advice. Will not elaborate much beyond latinos from other countries seem to have a tendency to adapt to the local argentine ways and change once they land in EZE. It's weird but I've seen it time and time again.

I disagree with you saying it's awful advice. Have you done it? I have and it was absolutely amazing. I also know others that have and their novias loved it. Buenos Aires to them is like Europe. It's beautiful. Most of these Colombian cities are dingy compared to most cities in Argentina.

I mean anyone at all that moves to another country will adapt a bit to the local customs. That is totally normal. But you will find Argentines are really close looped. What I mean by that is it's really difficult to penetrate their inner circle. They don't easily let friends into their groups. Especially foreigners. They mostly hang out with their long time friends. They don't easily make new friends and invite them to do stuff. So that causes others in Latin America that move there to seek out others from their home country. (Peru, Venezuela, Colombians, etc).

Just out of curiosity Ashton. What are you referring to about the "local Argentine ways". What does that mean? What ways?

 

[oddDistribution]

Sure, of course the #1 priority is to make sure you can afford it. But don't discount what people are saying. Buenos Aires is going to be half as cheap (or even more than 1/2 as cheap) than most cities in Colombia. Easily.

For Argentina residency you can contact - https://argentinaresidency.com/. They are really good honest people. Lorena did mine over 20 years ago. She has helped many of my friends and clients over the years. Tell her Earl Lee says hello.

These days there are a lot of blogs and YouTube videos from ex-pats with how much they are spending so do some research or feel free to ask here. There are a lot of friendly, helpful and acknowledgeable people on this forum.

Also, one thing I forgot to mention that is VERY IMPORTANT and something that you should be honest about yourself moving to Colombia is do you want kids? Because that can totally throw off your retirement plans completely! I can't tell you how many friends I have that have moved to Brazil or Colombia to say they never want kids. Or they never want MORE kids (kids from a previous marriage). They are all ready to be selfish and take care of themselves or their girlfriend.

Only to start dating and then these Colombianas instinctively want to be moms and have kids. You're early 40's so I assume your dating range in Colombia will be mid/late 20's to early 30's. I doubt you will want to date anyone your age. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But trust me. In Colombia you're going to be dating younger. Girls there gravitate towards older guys than them.

And many of these girls in their late 20's to early 30's that don't have kids will feel their biological clock ticking. You definitely will fall in love eventually and you just have to be careful in retirement planning because that can totally throw things off. Kids are damn expensive. I don't care which country you're in!

So many of my friends even ones living in the USA that met Colombian girls here and married them are in this situation. With Colombianas you almost almost date younger. Even if you're not looking to. My best friend in the USA met a Colombiana here in the USA. He fell in love and they got married. My friend is 53 and his wife is 36. And what do you know she wants kids. That's why she divorced her first husband because he didn't want kids. So even though my friend had a vasectomy, he got It reversed and the deal is at least they will try. He is dreading having more kids as he already has 2 kids and hard to think about starting all over.

The very positive thing is Colombian women are the absolute best mothers and wives. They dote on you. They take care of you and your children. They love sex and it's mind-blowing good. Unlike any other women out there. So in that respect if it happens you're in good hands. The downside is kids are freaking expensive. So keep that in the back of your mind going in to this and don't say I didn't tell you "I told you". Ha, ha.




I disagree with you saying it's awful advice. Have you done it? I have and it was absolutely amazing. I also know others that have and their novias loved it. Buenos Aires to them is like Europe. It's beautiful. Most of these Colombian cities are dingy compared to most cities in Argentina.

I mean anyone at all that moves to another country will adapt a bit to the local customs. That is totally normal. But you will find Argentines are really close looped. What I mean by that is it's really difficult to penetrate their inner circle. They don't easily let friends into their groups. Especially foreigners. They mostly hang out with their long time friends. They don't easily make new friends and invite them to do stuff. So that causes others in Latin America that move there to seek out others from their home country. (Peru, Venezuela, Colombians, etc).

Just out of curiosity Ashton. What are you referring to about the "local Argentine ways". What does that mean? What ways?

Thanks for sharing that immigration service. I'll check them out. I've been meeting with different lawyer and accountants from both places and and it's really hard to nail down who to work with.

That's a really great point regarding kids. I'm open to having them if I met the right person and I can imagine that my partner would want them. The main consideration would be fitting it into my budget. How much would you say to budget roughly speaking for a kid?

 

[earlyretirement]

Thanks for sharing that immigration service. I'll check them out. I've been meeting with different lawyer and accountants from both places and and it's really hard to nail down who to work with.

That's a really great point regarding kids. I'm open to having them if I met the right person and I can imagine that my partner would want them. The main consideration would be fitting it into my budget. How much would you say to budget roughly speaking for a kid?

I've gotten permanent residency in a few countries. Some I did myself and most I hired an immigration attorney. My advice on that is go with someone that has been doing it a long long time. They will know the ins and outs. Typically you want to go with someone that you get a personal vouch or recommendation or that has a ton of good reviews online. I know there are a lot of immigration attorneys in Buenos Aires but go with one that has been around a long time. Don't always go just for the cheapest.

In Argentina I got my DNI and then they renewed it 3 times and then I got my permanent residency. I don't think you have to be in a rush. But you're definitely doing it the right way. Lots of ex-pats just live in the country and never get residency. Just keep in mind in Argentina you need a DNI to open up bank account, etc. so it's helpful. If you bring a Colombia she won't have any issues at all with staying in Argentina. But they can do the process as well. It's easier for them.

On cost of living that's going to depend on the country. I'm still living with the kids in the USA so it's wicked expensive. It's insanely expensive as I live in California and the kids are in a lot of competitive sports so just on tennis lessons per kid it's like $250 dollars per week per kid. Then add in all the other stuff, clothes, food, etc. and let's just say it's much more expensive what I'm spending per kid then you're entire retirement budget. It's ugly but hope to move permanently to Buenos Aires soon.