Argentine Citizenship for foreigners: Can it really be this easy?

[steveinbsas]

I agree one should think long term; So I'll throw a counter to those. If you become a citizen, master nationality rule applies so you will likely loose diplomatic protection here from your country of origin.

It would be interesting to know just how much "diplomatic protection" is provided to foreigners without "diplomatic status" by their consulates in Argentina. Wasn't there a post about this recently? I'll try to find it.

If, for example, Argentina goes to hell in a hand basket, and let’s say you find yourself in jail, or the government implements strict exit permits, you may end up without any consular assistance from your country of origin or even worse, no way to get out of AR. Simply because you are now an Argentine citizen and that will take precedence in AR over your other nationality. This is probably far-fetched, like the concentration camps idea, but think about those expats now fleeing north Africa.

If "Argentina goes to hell in a hand basket" at least I won't be in a densely populated area without access to food supplies. I can eat what I grow here. Until then it's only a 20 minute drive to Walmart or Carrefour.

Anyone thinking about dual citizenship should do a lot of research and be very aware of all the consequences. Possible tax implications are just one issue of many.

I believe the tax implications are the same for both temporary and permanent residents as well as citizens. If you really believe that there are "many" other implications of obtaining citizenship in Argentina could you please detail at least a few of them?

IMHO, temporary/permanent residency is not that scary… no matter what anyone else tries to sell you.

Bajo_cero2 has made it clear that he cannot represent anyone applying for citizenship who already has temporary or permanent residency(and a DNI). As indicated, he has developed a strategy for those who wish to apply for citizenship and are not eligible for either temporary or permanent residency but indeed may qualify for citizenship.

I believe he quoted a rate of $1200 USD for his service. That sounds much more reasonable than paying an "agency" $3500 u$d to apply for the visa temporaria and $1800 per year for the renewals (including the cambio to permanente). I know of at least "2 Guys" who used the agency whose rates I just "quoted" and they have recommended it here. They may have paid less than the current rates, but probably more than BC2 charges today.

This is the same agency that currently shows a five year time line for citizenship on their website, including two years of permanent residency after three years of temporary. I now know that the two year "residency" requirement begins the date one first sets foot on Argentine soil (yes, as a tourist), and neither temporary or permanent residency are requisites for citizenship.


There is more information (perhaps too much) here: Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

 

[steveinbsas]

It has been posted several times, but SEVERAL TIMES, that you don't have to give up US citizenship.

That being said, every few weeks, feel free to post otherwise, it always spices up a thread.

Here are just two examples:

Dual citizenship?

Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

 

[bigbadwolf]

It would be interesting to know just how much "diplomatic protection" is provided to foreigners without "diplomatic status" by their consulates in Argentina.

Squat, if you're a US citizen. I assume you've used quotation marks because you're thinking of Raymond Davis in Pakistan.

If "Argentina goes to hell in a hand basket" at least I won't be in a densely populated area without access to food supplies. I can eat what I grow here.

The argument of "going to hell in a hand basket" can also be used for the US. All that glitters is not gold: the US is in parlous state.

 

[steveinbsas]

The argument of "going to hell in a hand basket" can also be used for the US. All that glitters is not gold: the US is in parlous state.

Congratulations, Wolfie, you hit the nail on the head! That's exactly why I yam where I yam (apologies to Popeye), away from the chaos (present and future) of the Capital (or any city in the USA when things really go to hell...with or without the basket).

 

[Gilani]

i have been in conversation with Bajo Cero for my citizenship application. And I must say he looks like a very competent and a smart lawyer.

 

[AndrewWoodward]

Squat, if you're a US citizen. I assume you've used quotation marks because you're thinking of Raymond Davis in Pakistan.



The argument of "going to hell in a hand basket" can also be used for the US. All that glitters is not gold: the US is in parlous state.

The case in Pakistan relates to diplomatic immunity, not the services the State department will provide regular US citizens if they find themselves in trouble.

Diplomatic immunity = immunity from all crimes, unless the country waives the person's diplomatic status. For everyone else, the laws of the country you're in prevail, as the State department constantly reminds you.


The point 2guys is making is that if things ever go to hell in Argentina, having local citizenship immediately denies you any right to assistance from the United States. If you are a citizen of Argentina AND the United States, Argentina has the right to treat you as a citizen SOLELY of Argentina. They could draft you, refuse to let you leave the country, and so on.

Obviously unlikely, but I think he was being the devil's advocate.

 

[steveinbsas]

i have been in conversation with Bajo Cero for my citizenship application. And I must say he looks like a very competent and a smart lawyer.

Good for you! Just so everyone knows, though I have complimented BC2 for the information he has provided and wished him success with clients he might attract here, I have never met him or had any personal contact with him, not even an email or a PM.

 

[2GuysInPM]

...

The point 2guys is making is that if things ever go to hell in Argentina, having local citizenship immediately denies you any right to assistance from the United States. If you are a citizen of Argentina AND the United States, Argentina has the right to treat you as a citizen SOLELY of Argentina. They could draft you, refuse to let you leave the country, and so on.

Obviously unlikely, but I think he was being the devil's advocate.

Exactly .. and I even forgot to cover the draft thing.

I was maily bothered by suggestion that citizenship could save one from being taken to "concentration camps" or from having their property seized by the government. Those are cheap fear arguments, IMHO to sell citizenship as something better than residency.

We all know that any government, under a “hell in a hand basket” situation that ends up putting people in concentration camps and seizing property is not likely to discriminate between a resident, a dual national, or even birth citizens. If things start heading that way, best to pack your sh*t and leave ASAP than stay and test your Glenn Beck survival kit.

Anyways, lately there’s a lot of talk here about citizenship and that is great. But I tend to cringe at suggestions to seek AR citizenship as a means to solve the inconveniences perma-tourists face here.

Don’t get me wrong, I think citizenship can be a good path for any expat who is 100% committed to AR and has the means to stay here to make a life for themselves or retire. For someone like Steve, who seems to fall in that space, it makes sense and I look forward to reading his progress on his application. But for most expats, who sometimes come with big plans and then leave as reality sets in, a quick route to citizenship (without truly understanding the consequences) as a means to avoiding the more apt residency process is bad advice. But that’s just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth.

@Steve; That we paid top dollar to agency for our helping us get residency is not the issue. We all know you are a do-it-yourself kind of person and that's awesome. But since you brought it up; it is what we chose to do and we're 100% happy with that decision. Trust me; (a) it did not hurt our pockets and (b) we could have totally done it ourselves if we wanted to (I am a native Spanish speaker after all). For us; time is money, and I know what we paid is a fraction of what it would have cost us to take time off work to do it on our own (never mind the aggravation we avoided). Our experience with that agency was great, very quick and smooth process, requiring minimal time from us to just gather docs, show up to a few things and sign. But their fees are not for everyone. They have a specific clientele with professionals and multi-nationals relocating executives and workers here and they deliver with a money back guarantee.

That said, the process now is more streamlined and clear than what it was back in 2006 when we started. So anyone looking to get residency today should strongly consider the do-it-yourself approach if it makes sense for them. It is great to have that option, and for those who are busy there are always agencies and lawyers available with many price ranges and reputations to pick from.

Good luck to you guys seeking citizenship. Do keep us posted!

 

[surfing]

My friend has just finished a big part of her citizenship tramite. Can someone tell me what comes next? So far she has published the judicial edict in the newspaper and hand her fingerprints taken (twice).
Does anyone know what comes next and how long it will take to conclude? I hope to be doing the same soon.

EDITED to add:

Sorry, I now see bajocero's post about the two reports which take about seven months -- but what happens then? Does the court just give you a paper saying you are now a citizen or do you have to physically go to court before the judge?

 

[Markgeezer]

First of all congratulations Steve

Among other things, now you have the right to vote in this country!!

.... what "other things" did you mean Roxana, that a permanent resident would not have the right to?