Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

[ndcj]

I NEVER SAID YOU DID. I'VE BEEN SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE. Seriously pay attention.
What I said in the post that you quoted is that you can't lie about it under oath. That's a crime.

But it's important to point out that it's not a potentially expatriating crime. Lying under oath may indeed be a crime, but it's not a crime that can lead to the loss of your US citizenship.

 

[mini]

But it's important to point out that it's not a potentially expatriating crime. Lying under oath may indeed be a crime, but it's not a crime that can lead to the loss of your US citizenship.

no one said it was.

 

[eschal]

Fuck this thread!!!

 

[marraco]

...

Is it possible to sue the government for citizenship because the national constitution is a little vague on the requirements (as opposed to the government as quoted above)? Yes it is possible. Will you win? Perhaps, or perhaps not. It's a very large gamble to take. And I would spend a lot of time and money talking to excellent immigration lawyers before I even would begin such a project. Much easier to just make yourself fit the existing government accepted requirements.
...

There is no vagueness. Constitution effectively forbids the government to impede your migration:

Art. 25.- El Gobierno federal fomentará la inmigración europea; y no podrá restringir, limitar ni gravar con impuesto alguno la entrada en el territorio argentino de los extranjeros que traigan por objeto labrar la tierra, mejorar las industrias, e introducir y enseñar las ciencias y las artes.

Literaly says "the government cannot restrict, limit or tax the entrance".
The reference to European migration (which belongs to the first constitution from 19 century) is extended to any human being because of the article 72, section 22:



Art. 72;22. Aprobar o desechar tratados concluidos con las demás naciones y con las organizaciones internacionales y los concordatos con la Santa Sede. Los tratados y concordatos tienen jerarquía superior a las leyes.
La Declaración Americana de los Derechos y Deberes del Hombre; la Declaración Universal de Derechos Humanos; la Convención Americana sobre Derechos Humanos; el Pacto Internacional de Derechos Económicos, Sociales y Culturales; el Pacto Internacional de Derechos Civiles y Políticos y su Protocolo Facultativo; la Convención sobre la Prevención y la Sanción del Delito de Genocidio; la Convención Internacional sobre la Eliminación de todas las Formas de Discriminación Racial; la Convención sobre la Eliminación de todas las Formas de Discriminación contra la Mujer; la Convención contra la Tortura y otros Tratos o Penas Crueles, Inhumanos o Degradantes; la Convención sobre los Derechos del Niño; en las condiciones de su vigencia, tienen jerarquía constitucional, no derogan artículo alguno de la primera parte de esta Constitución y deben entenderse complementarios de los derechos y garantías por ella reconocidos. Sólo podrán ser denunciados, en su caso, por el Poder Ejecutivo nacional, previa aprobación de las dos terceras partes de la totalidad de los miembros de cada Cámara.
Los demás tratados y convenciones sobre derechos humanos, luego de ser aprobados por el Congreso, requerirán del voto de las dos terceras partes de la totalidad de los miembros de cada Cámara para gozar de la jerarquía constitucional.



It forbids any discrimination.


Article 20 equates foreigners rights to citizen rights:


Art. 20.- Los extranjeros gozan en el territorio de la Nación de todos los derechos civiles del ciudadano; pueden ejercer su industria, comercio y profesión; poseer bienes raíces, comprarlos y enajenarlos; navegar los ríos y costas; ejercer libremente su culto; testar y casarse conforme a las leyes. No están obligados a admitir la ciudadanía, ni a pagar contribuciones forzosas extraordinarias. Obtienen nacionalización residiendo dos años continuos en la Nación; pero la autoridad puede acortar este término a favor del que lo solicite, alegando y probando servicios a la República.


Also, 2 years of residence automatically means citizenship. With or without papers.



Article 14 warrants the right to get into, STAY, move, and get out for any inhabitant. Do not requires citizenship.


Art. 14.- Todos los habitantes de la Nación gozan de los siguientes derechos conforme a las leyes que reglamenten su ejercicio; a saber: de trabajar y ejercer toda industria lícita; de navegar y comerciar; de peticionar a las autoridades; de entrar, permanecer, transitar y salir del territorio argentino; de publicar sus ideas por la prensa sin censura previa; de usar y disponer de su propiedad; de asociarse con fines útiles; de profesar libremente su culto; de enseñar y aprender.

You can sue the government, and even demand it for paying the trial costs. It does not matter any other law, because Constitution has precedence over any other law or regulation.

Even the "reciprocity tax" is illegal.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Also, 2 years of residence automatically means citizenship. With or without papers.

....

You can sue the government, and even demand it for paying the trial costs. It does not matter any other law, because Constitution has precedence over any other law or regulation.

Well, there is some missunderstanding.

Gunt86, immigration lawyers know about the immigration law. Citizenship is regarding another law and it is very specific. So, I suggest you don´t waste your money. That´s all what the bar association allow me to say about my colleges.

You mentioned to sue the government, in fact, the citizenship process is a trial and you claim for your rights. That´s the point. And it is a free procedure. You can try to do it without a lawyer, if you have DNI you can, otherwise you need a very specialized lawyer. There aren`t many.

Marraco, citizenship is regulated by art. 20 CN, Law 346, decretes 3213/84 and the Supreme Court precedents of the last 85 years. In fact, legal residence is not a requirement but judges freak out every time I start a case with a new judge. Once I explain that Supreme Court said so, they accept it.

This is not automatic, in fact, I have to work like hell to make it possible (citizenship for illegals).

I have 15 cases with 11 of the 12 federal judges of this city and no issue regarding to apply only with passport. Some of them also ask for birth certificate. No one ask for criminal record. It doesn´t mean that it is easy.

On wednesday I am starting a case in another jurisdiction. Seems to be easier, I mean that they respect the law...
They accept cases with 1 year of residence in the country because they say, it takes a year, it is unfair that you get your citizenship after being 3 years here (2 years plus 1 year of trial).

The main issue is related to evidence the honest way of living. Half of the judges interprets honest way of living as legal way of living. Legal way of living means you have cuit that means you have legal residence. I have 2 cases at the chamber for that right now.

So, this means they can´t reject a case because of illegal residence, so they look for another way to ask legal residence.

So, as I said, it is not so simple.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

New update:

1) Chinese citizen with argentinian family:

Today we got the birth certificate from renaper, so tomorrow I will ask the judge to ask for the informes (the trial is like a criminal investigation, the judge ask for info to: Interpol, side (secret service), Police, all the state police, and any other public or private agency. For example, telefonica).

The main issue is related to these informes. The judge decides which he consider to be necessary. depending of which he ask, it takes between 3 up to 6 month the get the answer.

So, reality is that a case takes between 8 months to 1 year as a rule. If there are appeals it might take up to 18 months.

Regards

 

[mini]

New update:

1) Chinese citizen with argentinian family:

Today we got the birth certificate from renaper, so tomorrow I will ask the judge to ask for the informes (the trial is like a criminal investigation, the judge ask for info to: Interpol, side (secret service), Police, all the state police, and any other public or private agency. For example, telefonica).

The main issue is related to these informes. The judge decides which he consider to be necessary. depending of which he ask, it takes between 3 up to 6 month the get the answer.

So, reality is that a case takes between 8 month to 1 year as a rule. If there are appeals it might take a 18 months.

Regards

I'm curious, are courts/trials open to the public? If so can I go with you one day & watch the process?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I'm curious, are courts/trials open to the public? If so can I go with you one day & watch the process?

They aren´t open to public but I can say you are my assistant or translator.

Be my guest.

The interesting is to see how to start a case. I have to go and see the files twice a week, this would be boring for you to come.

Tomorrow I start a case in a friendly environment, if you want to wake up early call me tonight, I send you my phone by PM.

Regards

 

[mini]

They aren´t open to public but I can say you are my assistant or translator.

Be my guest.

The interesting is to see how to start a case. I have to go and see the files twice a week, this would be boring for you to come.

Tomorrow I start a case in a friendly environment, if you want to wake up early call me tonight, I send you my phone by PM.

Regards

Oh. Sounds exciting. I can't go tomorrow. But let's plan something for after the holiday, yes!? I think this will be quite interesting! Thanks.

 

[clooz]

No, that's is not true.

It may not be true for citizenship resulting from birth in the US, but I recently became a naturalized us citizen, based on uninterrupted residence, etc.

I am under the impression that there are different classes of US citizenship. I noted in the fine print of the sworn application that US naturalized citizenship can be revoked for any mis-information in the application. In the application, you formally promise to be renouncing all other national allegiances that you have sworn. I don't have the exact wording here so I'm paraphrasing of course. This is a muddy business. What if you have an allegiance and never swore it. What if you renounce all you like, but your renunciation is repudiated or ignored and your nation keeps sending you tax bills. Some nations are under the impression they have you on the tax rolls till you die and then some, others want you off and begone if you so much as look at another nation.