Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

[steveinbsas]

Since this thread has resurfaced, here is some additional information:

"Argentinean citizenship can only be applied for after a number of years. To become an Argentinean citizen, you generally have to be resident in Argentina for 2 years and fulfil certain conditions.

In most cases, you have to fulfil most or all of the following conditions:

Be older than 18 years of age
Uninterrupted residence of at least 2 years in Argentina, documented at the Dirección de Migraciones
Birth certificate legalised by the Argentinean consulate in your country of origin
Copy of your DNI and passport
Certificate of domicile
Proof of sufficient funds and/or an employment contract
If you have Argentinean children, a copy of the birth certificate and a certificate of the Immigration office

Double Nationality

Argentina has an agreement with the following countries to recognize dual nationality: Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Honduras, Italy, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Spain, Sweden and United States."

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Argentina/Argentina-Guide/Visas-Permits/Citizenship

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Since this thread has resurfaced, here is some additional information:
"Argentinean citizenship can only be applied for after a number of years. To become an Argentinean citizen, you generally have to be resident in Argentina for 2 years and fulfil certain conditions.
In most cases, you have to fulfil most or all of the following conditions:

With all my respect, this is not additional information, this is missinformation.

This is worng. You need to have been living in Argentina (residence) for 2 years no matter your legal status (legal residence).

Be older than 18 years of age

Ok

Uninterrupted residence of at least 2 years in
Argentina, documented at the Dirección de Migraciones

Wrong. Continious residence is the requirement. Residence means to live here. Continious means that you have your addresss uninterrupted for 2 years. According to law you keep your address with your will. If you travel abroad but your address is here the 2 years didn´t stop.
With all my respect, this info is regarding a law that was abolished 27 years ago.

I don´t understand why you posted unchecked info from the web when you a lawyer to consult.

Birth certificate legalised by the Argentinean consulate in your country of origin

No. You need passport or birth certificate or DNI. Only 1 of the 12 federal judges of this city ask for birth certificate.

Copy of your DNI and passport

No. Original and copy of the ID you have, whatever it is.

Certificate of domicile

Yes.

Proof of sufficient funds and/or an employment contract

Wrong. Honest way of living. If you have DNI you have to show the recibo de sueldo. if you work en negro because you are irregular, then you need 2 person who asert onder oath that your work is whatever it is. If you have savings, your back account.

There are not rules at the citizenship procedure, this is not like DGM because a judge is analizing your case instead of an agent who barely finished highschool.

If you have Argentinean children, a copy of the birth certificate and a certificate of the Immigration office

No, no, no, no!

The citizenship procedure is like a criminal investigation where the judge investigates you. So, the prosecutor in chief orderer to do not accept certificates from the solicitant. It means: The judge askes for your criminal record, the immigration information (they inform when did you arrive, travels, legal status, etc).

Here the judge is asking for your criminal record to INTERPOL, which is a standard procedure:

Double Nationality

Argentina has an agreement with the following countries to recognise double nationality:bChile, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Honduras, Italy, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Spain, Sweden and United States."

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Argentina/Argentina-Guide/Visas-Permits/Citizenship

Wrong. Argentina accepts double citizenship. Some countries doesn´t. China is an example, so it is China who cancels your chinese citizenship.

(continues)

 

[Bajo_cero2]

This is the prosecutor opinion regarding citizenship for illegals:

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

Bajo_cero2, Based on your previous posts, I'm not surprised to see that you disagree with the information that I quoted from the Just Landed website. You apear to know more about citizenship law in Argentina than some of those who actually deal with the issue in an official capacity.

I also have the following list (with different requirements) that was given to me two weeks ago in Bahia Blanca:

DNI o Certificado Migraciones o Ced. Iden.
Certificado Nacimento (legalizado en el pais de origen)
Certificado trabajo o ultimo aporte jublitorio
Certificado de domicilio 48 hs validez
Solicitud de ciudadania (en el Juzgado)

With the above they said it would take about a year.

Any comments?

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Bajo_cero2, Based on your previous posts, I'm not surprised to see that you disagree with the information that I quoted from the Just Landed website. You apear to know more about citizenship law in Argentina than some of those who actually deal with the issue in an official capacity.

Thank you for the compliment. I am a citizenship lawyer Steve, you posted general information, I corrected it with specilized information according to my professional skills.

As you can see, at the official capacities sometimes works a "bunch of idiots" who doesn´t even know which law to use:

I also have the following list (with different requirements) that was given to me two weeks ago in Bahia Blanca:

DNI o Certificado Migraciones o Ced. Iden.
Certificado Nacimento (legalizado en el pais de origen)
Certificado trabajo o ultimo aporte jublitorio
Certificado de domicilio 48 hs validez
Solicitud de ciudadania (en el Juzgado)

With the above they said it would take about a year.

Any comments?

Regards

You are missunderstanding the way the legal system works Steve. It is ok, you are not a lawyer, so I am going to try to clarify it for you:

1) If you full fit all the requirements requested by the judge (all the judges have a resume with the requirements, all the judges have different requirements)(no matter how ridicoulus might they be), then this is a "tramite" that you can do it without a lawyer.

2) But you may not full fit them, for example, if you don´t have legal residency. It doesn´t mean that you can´t apply for your citizenship, it only means that you need a lawyer. In this country, the citizenship is a right not a gift, this means that you can claim it.

So, in this case, you need a lawyer and this is going to be a trial.

This is not a math equation, law works different, is more like a civilized fight.

Let´s analize the prosecutor opinion:

The judge said that the citizenship can be applied only with DNI, legal residence, legal work, etc and he wanted to reject the case. The prosecutor answered (representing Argentina) that DNI, legal residence and legal work are not a requirement as the solicitant claimed. So, the judge changed his mind because I convinced him that my client has the right to apply without legal residence.

Read the prosecutor opinion, it is priceless.

Remember that I developed the citizenship strategy as a way to became legal when it is not possible to full fit the new visa requirements (2000 u$s, etc). It is not important what happens when you have permanent residency like you, unless you have criminal records, you will be Argentinian.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I also have the following list (with different requirements) that was given to me two weeks ago in Bahia Blanca:

DNI o Certificado Migraciones o Ced. Iden.
Certificado Nacimento (legalizado en el pais de origen)
Certificado trabajo o ultimo aporte jublitorio
Certificado de domicilio 48 hs validez
Solicitud de ciudadania (en el Juzgado)

With the above they said it would take about a year.

Any comments?

Regards

As you can see, this judge only accepts to apply with legal residency. However, Supreme Court precedents are mandatory for him. I din´t start a case under this judge yet.

Remember Steve, this is a brochure not a law.

The same here, however I have many cases of irregulars in this jurisdiction.

This is interesting:

 

[Bajo_cero2]

See how he interprests properly the ID requirements:

He request for DNI or Cedula de ideantidad or birth certificate or passport.

But here there is a mistake because this is regarding the abolished law I mentioned:

I explained the judge that this is not enforzable. He said that for him it is very important that the applicant understands the consequences of becoming argentinian. I answered that I offer for free the chinese translator of my law firm or I can suggest an official translator wich will have to be paid by the Court. They accepted mine.

This is also 100% common sense. They tell you how to evidence your honest way of living according to your situation.

So, as I explained, this is not maths.

These brochures aren´t the law, they are only simplifications for regular people without legal expertize. The idea is to make it as simple as possible in order that you can do it without legal assistance. But, as I explained, if you have an issue, you need a lawyer.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

The idea is to make it as simple as possible in order that you can do it without legal assistance. But, as I explained, if you have an issue, you need a lawyer.

All I was and still am trying to discover is what are the requirements for me to obtain citizenship in Argentina without using a lawyer. If I present everything they asked me for in Bahia Blanca (even if there are exceptions for irregulars) I do not expect to have a problem. I hope you can indeed help those who do. It is very interesting to see the different lists.

I don't really have everything that was specified on the list they gave me at Bahia Blanca, but when I told them I had the docs I submitted to migraciones that proved an irrevocable income for life, they said I had enough to demonstrate what you refer to as an "honest way of living." I f i submitted the docs that were on the list from the Just Landed website I also believe I would qualify, even if some of them may not be legally required (when argued by a lawyer).

 

[Bajo_cero2]

3) Illegal former perma-tourist 3:
I added the certificado migratorios and they sent it to the prosecutor again. (The prosecutor said he need the certificado de movimientos migratorios to give his opinion about if permatourist full fit the 2 years continiuos residence or not)

Regards

The prosecutor said he need an official report about his immigration situation, so he rejected ours.
The DGM´s report arrived so the prosecutor gave his opinión.

He said the 2 continuous years are not interrupted for travelling to Uruguay to renewal the visa or for vacation or for visiting his homeland.

I couldn´t read it yet. On Thuesday it will probably be available for photocopying.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

All I was and still am trying to discover is what are the requirements for me to obtain citizenship in Argentina without using a lawyer. If I present everything they asked me for in Bahia Blanca (even if there are exceptions for irregulars) I do not expect to have a problem. I hope you can indeed help those who do. It is very interesting to see the different lists.

I don't really have everything that was specified on the list they gave me at Bahia Blanca, but when I told them I had the docs I submitted to migraciones that proved an irrevocable income for life, they said I had enough to demonstrate what you refer to as an "honest way of living." I f i submitted the docs that were on the list from the Just Landed website I also believe I would qualify, even if some of them may not be legally required (when argued by a lawyer).

Well, You have your DNI, your birth certificate and the evidence of your pension or whatever it is. That´s enough.

You can do 2 things. First, you can apply for the citizienship and ask them to require your complete file to DGM where all the papers are. You argumentation is that they gave you permanent residence under the "jubilado" category.

The second one is to ask for certified photocopies of the papers you submitted to the DGM regarding your pension and the birth certificate.
That´s enough.

Usually you deal with somebody who is a student at Court. So if he/she makes it difficult you should ask for the Secretario who is a Lawyer and the second in command (1-judge, 2-Secretario, 3-Prosecretario). He is the only one there with legal duty regarding thinking and deciding. The employed only follow the brochure. When you talk with the Secretario/a you explain the 2 scenarios I suggested you.

If they accept your case in this way, after 3 days they have to provide you with the 7 orders for reports (DGM, INTERPOL, PFA, RENAPER, etc.). Having DNI it took me between 3 to 15 days to get them (it depends on how efficient they are).

If you need any help, just send me a PM.

Regarding that website, just forget it, you have proper legal advice made by a Lawyer who works regarding citizenship, so, you can´t complain.
Regards


PD: If you have the Bahia Blanca´s brochure, I will really appriciate if you can mail me the original in paper for my personal collection.