Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

[Bajo_cero2]

Being also a lawyer I Agee a 100 percent.
I want to ad that for tax purpuses is useful

Well, it is great that you have quote that comment because it was made some time ago.

The facts show that he was wrong.

Nowadays, it is smarter to go straight for citizenship instead of paying fees many times.

By the way, he talks about many different topics, you said you agree. About that?

 

[Ceviche]

I was just checking Lorena's website ( ARCA).

They still need 5 years for citizenship! Go figure!

http://www.argentinaresidency.com/services/argentina-citizenship-passports.htm

 

[steveinbsas]

Being also a lawyer I Agee a 100 percent.
I want to ad that for tax purpuses is useful

The above was written in response to this:

I have provided for you what i know about the subject based upon numerous conversation with immigration lawyers in Argentina. None of what i have stated is based on hearsay or wild speculation on my part. I am done with providing information on this topic to this forum. It is abundantly clear to me that numerous misunderstanding have arisen on this topic primarily because of a lack of attention to terms. The words, 'resident', 'residency', 'continuous', and others are being treated with much different meanings by each participant in this discussion. Hence the confusion. You can take what i have provided (which i have also paid for by the way) and use it or you can go your own route. It is impossible to have any sort of meaningful discussion when the terms are not agreed upon - see Wittgenstein for more.

I don't think you have any idea what the ARG constitution "two years residency" concept means in terms of the practical reality of getting citizenship. Yes, according to the constitution only two years of residency are needed: where "residency" is left undefined. So of course a person can sue for citizenship by claiming that two years of physical presence meets the 'requirements' of the constitution. BUT, will you win? Maybe. There have been some successful cases in the past. But that does not mean your case will be successful. You may have to go all the way to the Supreme Court, and even then you might lose! Why would anyone do this except in the most desperate circumstances? As i said, if you want to try to sue the government based on what you think the constitution should be interpreted as, then please go ahead. I am not interested in such a gamble or difficult project, when it is much easier to follow the clear and simple path the government has provided towards citizenship.

It is absolutely ridiculous that Steve is even talking about suing the gvmt to get citizenship...this is the same person who refuses to pay for any legal advice and uses any opportunity to pump any lawyer for free legal advice. No amount of free legal advice is going to help you Steve, it actually costs a lot of money to sue the government.

I never replied to the insults in this post, but since it was quoted today, I think I will.

I suggest everyone read the first seven posts in this thread. I did not ask lawyers to respond in this thread, only those who had actually applied for citizenship. Gunt, who claimed to be a lawyer, was the first to reply. It was clear from the beginning that the first question he thought that needed to be answered was what actually constitutes two years residency in Argentina as applied to the requirements for obtaining citizenship. That actually was a very good question, especially for those who did not have a DNI and two years of permanent residency which, according to several sources (including Gunt), was a requirement for citizenship.

Gunt claimed to have done a lot of research on the subject but he was not capable of answering the initial question of this thread as he had not actually applied for citizenship and apparently he didn't know anyone who had, either...Just a bunch of lawyers he ostensibly paid for advice. And he did not indicate that even one of these lawyers had actually represented a single foreigner before the federal court in an attempt to obtain citizenship.

I can imagine a few circumstances when it would be necessary to use an "immigration" lawyer. One would be after you have been denied a visa or a renewal and received an order of deportation. Then I think it would be best to have a lawyer, not to appeal at migraciones, but to apply for citizenship. Of course it will also be necessary to use a lawyer to apply for citizenship if you go to the court to apply for citizenship and they do not even accept the application. I've always used the expressing "apply" for citizenship...never "sue" for citizenship. You apply at the federal court. Gunt introduced the word "sue" into this discussion, and he chose chose to ridicule me after I asked a question about it, completely twisting my question to scoff at the idea that I was the one who suggested suing the government.

Thanks to Dr. Rubilar we now know that some federal courts were (and some still may be) applying a law that was supposedly repealed almost 30 years ago. We also know that the word "inhabitant" is far more appropriate than resident when applying for citizenship. Migraciones uses the term resident in several different ways...transitoria, temporaria, and permanent. I have asked Dr. Rubilar a few questions in this thread, but not to provide free services to me. I didn't ask him to stay out of the discussion because he was a lawyer, but he had yet to win a case when he started posting in the thread.

I started this thread with these questions in mind: Are there any expats who have applied for and whether or not they were granted citizenship in Argentina? If so, what was their experience?

I was interested in hearing from any expat who had actually done do. One expat in another thread made it sound like he had done it all on his own but refused to answer any questions about the process...only making an obscure comment that his citizenship was dated in late December and he couldn't believe it.

He never offered an explanation, but I can guess that he was concerned that would make him liable to pay for Argentine taxes for that year....when he hoped not to have to pay them. It was his unwillingness to share any information about his experience applying for citizenship that provided the motivation for me to go ahead and apply for mine in February of 2011. ...and start the thread: Argentine Citizenship for foreigners: Can it really be this easy?

 

[Napoleon]

I had approached Mr Gabriel in 2010 and very openly told him that I wanted to become a Argentine citizen. He told me the ONLY and ONLY way possible is to become a permanent resident first and then become a citizen and whole process from residency to citizenship takes 5.5 years! Total Bollocks!!

Similarly, I had approached Lorena at ARCA for Argentine citizenship in 2008. She gave me the same bullshit as Gabriel.

The idea that when you come to renew residency, they make money every year out of you while citizenship is a far more clear cut procedure with less scope of making money!

Both Gabriel and Lorena are either thieves in disguise of a lawyer OR they are very gullible idiots who have no knowledge of law of their own country!

Enough said!

Respect to Mr Bajo Cero.

A bit harsher than I would have posted (or DID post before), but agreed that certain lawyers prefer to go with what they know, what has worked for them in the past, and perhaps what keeps you walking through the door the most often. Don't know which one, or whether it's all of the above. What I do know is that my visit to Gabriel's office didn't leave me with an option that he thought he could help me with.

 

[Ceviche]

So Mr Bajo Cero,

All court activity is stopped now?

All pending decisions/sentences are after first week August?

Nothing new this last week?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Yes, we started the winter holidays.

This week I got reply for the sanctions I asked at the Chamber. They said no because the judge changed their sentences adding the grant of the reports, so it look like I was asking for something without reason.

So, the worst judge started to behave. The chamber realized that nobody was going to give up, I was not going to surrender and the judge was not going to admit that he has to do what I asked.

So, the judge is happy because the Chamber said no to me but he enacted the reports and he add "urgent reply" on them, so, everybody is happy.

My strategy was to be too aggresive and to ask to much so, then what i really wanted seems to be just a little bit, and in fact i got more.

In all the other cases with delays, the judges were upset with me regarding the pressure I put on them, they said no on their sentence but, by magic, all the replies of the reports suddenly appears. In Spanish we say "hijos del rigor". So, fair enough for me.

By the first week of august I am going to have another 6 cases more for sentence.

Regarding the cases waiting for sentence, the prosecutor asked to wait for the DNM report to stablish the time they were living here and he didn t accepted the passport as evidence, so, I asked for pronto despacho reports and they will be replied bi the end of august.

The other half are at the prosecutor office for enacting the legal opinion but, as soon as July begings, they don t want to work, that s a fact.

Regards

 

[Ceviche]

Mr Bajo cero,

Best of luck for the pending sentences on your cases.

Looking forward to regular updates from you as August starts.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Yesterday arrived Lin´s DNI, It took 26 days, not bad.
Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Regarding Lin 2 who didn´t speak Spanish, today i was notified of the sentece:

I also was notified of another sentence:

And if you remember the case where he was rejected arguing he didn t speak Spanish but in fact they made questions about politics, I was very aggressive with the Secretary and the Prosecutor opinion was the following:

Continues:

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Regarding my advice about NOT going to Colonia because of the risk of getting rejected at the border, well, I had a consultation yesterday where they did that:

Read about the fake tourist (pseudo turista)....