Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

[Ceviche]

1. Oath: Depends from judge to judge, normally is 1 week.

2. To dni as argentine citizen: 20 working days.

3. Argentine passport: after DNI 1 day is you do it at Ezeiza.

Is the favorable sentence reversible? Yes it is only if you hide facts or you cheat the requirements. The sentence cannot be appeal but some prosecutor don t understand it. The procedure avoid the appeal but gives the Prosecutor the power to start a procedure for taking the citizenship away only if it was enacted by fraud. Otherwise, forget it.

That´s why I prefer to say all the truth and discuss the lack of legal consequences. For example, I started a case of a Dominican with a fake marriage (normal) and I explained to the judge that the marriage happens but it was without love but this is legal. Then the sentence, if the procedure is well done, is not reversible.

I had a client with cold criminal records and I explained it to the judge because the law only cares the last 5 years, he was very upset about that but I didn t care because the lawyer its me. The fact is that nobody cared about the prosecution he suffered, the debate was regarding the address.

Regards

Thank you for answering my question, Bajo Cero.

The part about reversing the positive sentence is not clear. What I understood, legally its possible but its a difficult process and some public prosecutor must be your enemy to pursue it in the court and must have lot of evidence!

 

[arlean]

Ceviche and Napolean, thank you for your comments. As you know, I've been really happy with Gabriel. I went to him because he was highly recommended by a woman who had gotten her citizenship through him. He certainly knows more than the attorney I had before. Things seem to be moving along well. Napolean, I'll be watcing to see how things work out and if Gabriel really did tell you wrongly since I have an audience to which i recommend him other than here so I try to keep up with things.

SteveinBS, I know what you say probably was true at one time but I was denied permanent residency because I did not live in BA the whole year. I was required to be here the entire year, which means it took an extra year to get permanent for that reason. You can't be here one day and get permanent, You can't get it if you are here three months, in fact! But what I didn't know, and what Gabriel has told me, I did not need permanent at all. I could have applied for citizenship a couple years ago, according to him. But I didn't know that. I wonder if that was once the case and people are just not up to date.

I'll be watching you guys to see how things go. I too am interested in the man with no Spanish. Also for Steve, I don't personally know any US people who got citizeship in Argentina, but I do know two people from Chile who got citizenship in Argentina within the last . . . not sure . . . three years I'd say. Fairly recently. They had no atorney. They applied on their own.

 

[Napoleon]

...Napolean, I'll be watcing to see how things work out and if Gabriel really did tell you wrongly since I have an audience to which i recommend him other than here so I try to keep up with things.

I don't know if Gabriel did "tell me wrongly".

He said that I "didn't qualify for a visa".

I'm under the impression that I still "don't qualify for a visa". But... I qualify for citizenship. At least as the Constitution is written.

That's not something that was brought up in our discussion, nor do I think that it was something that even occurred to him. Nor really to any other lawyer until Christian started looking into the Constitution to help out a friend in the tango world.

Gabriel seemed to be very good at working the system in its present state when I went to see him. Christian, on the other hand, was looking to shake up the system and use the written law (rather than the unwritten code) to achieve the goals of his clients.

These are two approaches are completely different animals. And the final outcome: Visa vs. Citizenship are different as well.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Bajocero,

Thanks again for all of your guidance. Am I correct to think that once the reports are granted most of the hard part is over with (assuming all the reports come back with no problem)? What I mean to say is: does the fact that the judge has granted the reports mean that they have decided to grant citizenship as long as on all reports come back clean?

No, the reports are just the first obstacle. Depends.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Thank you for answering my question, Bajo Cero.

The part about reversing the positive sentence is not clear. What I understood, legally its possible but its a difficult process and some public prosecutor must be your enemy to pursue it in the court and must have lot of evidence!

¿When a sentence is revertible?

When you submit a paper that is not real instead of appealing the sentence and creating a precedent that allows you to do things in that way.

For example, it is normal between paralegals to create fake companies for hiring his client and then they have a legal work but fake. They also provide fake addresses. That´s typical paralegal work. That´s why so many immigrant have criminal prosecutions and deportation orders against them.

Instead of doing that, I describe the true and I explain why it has no legal consequences. If the judge disagrees, theN I appeal and that´s how I have developed 12 new precedents that allow me to evidence the honest way of living in a custom made way even working under the table, for example. That sentence is not revertible.

A couple of months ago I appealed a sentence that required to evidence that the supermarket belongs to my client. I argued that it was under somebody else name because he hasn t DNI and witnesses should be accepted. The judge disagreed with me and he ordered an employed of the Court to go to the supermarket with a xerox of the passport of my client to confirm if he works there or not. With a fake work my client and me would be in jail, instead of that the judge evidenced his honest way of living and he is going to become Argentine.

This is the way a trial attorney works.

I use my knowledge on SC precedents to develop an strategy and, if it is necessary, to push the envelope for creating a new precedent. I propose a legal interpretation of the facts of the case.

I do a Taylor work where my initial claim has over a hundred pages instead of filling the form that the Court gives you.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

SteveinBS, I know what you say probably was true at one time but I was denied permanent residency because I did not live in BA the whole year. I was required to be here the entire year, which means it took an extra year to get permanent for that reason. You can't be here one day and get permanent, You can't get it if you are here three months, in fact! But what I didn't know, and what Gabriel has told me, I did not need permanent at all. I could have applied for citizenship a couple years ago, according to him. But I didn't know that. I wonder if that was once the case and people are just not up to date.

Arlean, I received my permanent residency on the third renewal of my temporary visa and that was just before the income requirement for the visa rentista increased from about $2500-2700 pesos to $8000 pesos per month (and the pensioner visa increase by an "unspecified amount). I made a comment in another thread that I believed a permanent resident had to be in Argentina one day every two years in order to keep it. I didn't say that it was possible to be granted permanent residency after being in Argentina for one day.

I did travel outside Argentina for 2 weeks in the first year, over 2 months in the second year, but I was in Argentina the entire third year. I never heard anything about having to be in Argentina for the entire year for any of the three years, including the one prior to the third renewal in order to be granted permanent residency. I was in Argentina more than six months of each year prior to all three renewals and I know that is a requirement for temporary resident visa remewals

Did you have a temporary visa for three years prior to applying for permanent residency? Did the income requirement increase after you received your temporary visa? Is there a possibility you did not qualify for permanent residency based on your level of income?

The first month I was in Argentina I was told by a real estate agent (!) that I could apply for citizenship after two years but it would be easier if I had a DNI. Since it was relatively easy for me to get the visa rentista and the DNI I did just that. At the end of the second year I just renewed my DNI and I waited to apply for citizenship until after I had permanent residency and (thanks to information provided by Bajo-cero2 (Dr. Rubilar) discovered the requirement of having permanent residency for two years prior to citizenship was obsolete.

I am beginning to wonder, however, if the two year requirement of permanent residency is being enforced in the federal court here. I will have had permanent residency for two years in October 2012. I applied for citizenship in late February, 2011. I checked at the court several months ago and the secretary told me all I had to do is wait for them to call me to publish the notice in the newspaper.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Mr Bajo Cero, I am curious about this guy who has no Spanish knowledge. How is his case going?

it's under study. I presented a pronto despacho on Friday and today they told me that the judge might enact the sentences before this Friday. Let s call him Lin Y.

Lin Q, the guy in the last picture, was assisted by a translator during the oath.
Regards

 

[Ceviche]

it's under study. I presented a pronto despacho on Friday and today they told me that the judge might enact the sentences before this Friday. Let s call him Lin Y.

Lin Q, the guy in the last picture, was assisted by a translator during the oath.
Regards

Very eager to hear about this person's sentence (Lin Y) Mr Bajo! Kindly keep us updated. and so very kind of you to share information on this forum open to public!

Respect !

 

[Ceviche]

I had approached Mr Gabriel in 2010 and very openly told him that I wanted to become a Argentine citizen. He told me the ONLY and ONLY way possible is to become a permanent resident first and then become a citizen and whole process from residency to citizenship takes 5.5 years! Total Bollocks!!

Similarly, I had approached Lorena at ARCA for Argentine citizenship in 2008. She gave me the same bullshit as Gabriel.

The idea that when you come to renew residency, they make money every year out of you while citizenship is a far more clear cut procedure with less scope of making money!

Both Gabriel and Lorena are either thieves in disguise of a lawyer OR they are very gullible idiots who have no knowledge of law of their own country!

Enough said!

Respect to Mr Bajo Cero.

 

[psflores]

I have provided for you what i know about the subject based upon numerous conversation with immigration lawyers in Argentina. None of what i have stated is based on hearsay or wild speculation on my part. I am done with providing information on this topic to this forum. It is abundantly clear to me that numerous misunderstanding have arisen on this topic primarily because of a lack of attention to terms. The words, 'resident', 'residency', 'continuous', and others are being treated with much different meanings by each participant in this discussion. Hence the confusion. You can take what i have provided (which i have also paid for by the way) and use it or you can go your own route. It is impossible to have any sort of meaningful discussion when the terms are not agreed upon - see Wittgenstein for more.

I don't think you have any idea what the ARG constitution "two years residency" concept means in terms of the practical reality of getting citizenship. Yes, according to the constitution only two years of residency are needed: where "residency" is left undefined. So of course a person can sue for citizenship by claiming that two years of physical presence meets the 'requirements' of the constitution. BUT, will you win? Maybe. There have been some successful cases in the past. But that does not mean your case will be successful. You may have to go all the way to the Supreme Court, and even then you might lose! Why would anyone do this except in the most desperate circumstances? As i said, if you want to try to sue the government based on what you think the constitution should be interpreted as, then please go ahead. I am not interested in such a gamble or difficult project, when it is much easier to follow the clear and simple path the government has provided towards citizenship.

It is absolutely ridiculous that Steve is even talking about suing the gvmt to get citizenship...this is the same person who refuses to pay for any legal advice and uses any opportunity to pump any lawyer for free legal advice. No amount of free legal advice is going to help you Steve, it actually costs a lot of money to sue the government.

Being also a lawyer I Agee a 100 percent.
I want to ad that for tax purpuses is useful