gouchobob: I once saw a car crash where one of the driver took an iron chain, the other one that metal X-thing to unscrew tires to attack or intimidate each other. I don't know how it ended (I was on a colectivo), but I am pretty sure that nobody died. If they would have had firearms, it might have resulted quite ugly. And thats the thing, many people suffer a moment once in a while, where they loose control and even if it is only for a minute. And then it is just awful if they have a firearm with them. Inside your house you are allowed to have them anyway (at least if you are argentine)
Been down here 3 months and got beat-up & mugged
- Thread starter mandysugarcubes
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RobinsonGO
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stefano said:
Its not that bad. Come for a visit, you will be fine. Dont walk around with your ipod in you hand, dont walk parts of the city at 4am, and dont go to LA BOCA on the Sunday of the Superclasico. Enjoy your vacacion.
fred mertz
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La Boca, La Boca, La Boca. This kind of crime is happening all over the city every day and probably every hour of every day. When I returned from a trip a few weeks ago, I was unable to get into my Recoleta building. A woman was attacked at 11:30 on a Saturday morning by a guy with a gun. They changed the door locks. I hear stories often about people being robbed , far from La Boca. Why don´t the police walk the beat? Too hard to text while walking?
Regarding firearms:
1. I'd NEVER carry one. As I said before, I was robbed seven times at a very young age. I was beaten up like the thread starter at age 12. Still, I don't want a gun. I don't want a gun in my home, let alone in on me. There's a Spanish say: "Las armas las carga el diablo y las descargan las descargan los idiotas". It means "Guns are loaded by de devil and unloaded (meaning shot) by the idiot." I firmly believe that phrase points a universal truth that should be understood as a warning: GUNS CAN RAISE HELL AND TAKE LIVES. Let's walk through this point VERY carefully. By pulling the trigger, you're starting something you can bet your life (I used italics to avoid the ironic twist) will likely end with someone dead or severely injured. You better be 100% sure you must shoot your opponent before he shoots you, and you better be 1000% sure by the end of the shooting it will be either you or him lying on the ground AND NO ONE ELSE. Which takes me to my next point:
2. A gun may save your life, but my very well land you in prison as well. The Judge in charge of your case will need very solid reasons to think you're innocent of killing the poor unlucky man, woman or child you shot in the process of saving your ass, if such were the case. I'm not a lawyer and I'm overreaching myself , but to show how ugly and complicated a situation involving firearms could get if gone astray.
3. As far as I'm concerned, there are two formal legal permits for owning a gun in my country: TENENCIA, and PORTACION.
This is what gun owners told me:
- Tenencia: It's a limited license you have to apply for in order to keep a loaded gun INSIDE your residence. Say, if someone broke into your home without warning and with unclear intentions (the Police wouldn't brake in without calling you out first, I want to believe...
), I guess you could assume the situation is threatening enough to go for your gun. I'd also suppose the Judge in charge of your case would understand you couldn't afford waiting to see if the invader were a robber, a rapist, OBL who escaped once again , a serial killer or your drunk friends wanting to scare you. Most importantly, you were stopping someone who broke into your private residence. It can't get more self-defense than that, yet you'd have to go through some thorough interrogation for sure.
If you want to go to a shooting range to shoot some rounds for practice, your gun must be unloaded all the time from your doorstep to the shooting booth. If you go by car and if I remember right, you must keep your empty gun in the car's trunk and bullets/magazine in the glove compartment. I don't know the procedure for walking, but unloading is the first thing for sure.
- Portación: You're allowed to carry a loaded gun anywhere, anytime. They don't just "give" this license. It's not like applying for a driving license, even if a professional one. Getting Portación granted takes much more than proving you're sane and a proficient shooter. Let me be frank: I feel bad for anyone with reasons worth being granted one. The only person I knew to posses one was the father of a very close friend. An electronic engineer, founder and owner of a PyME-size E.E. company, he was working on an installation in some small country town (BA province). Apparently, the solitary road he had to take to get there was proven to be dangerous enough for being reasonable to keep a loaded gun on the driver's seat (at least that's where my friend's father kept it). He got it revoked a couple years later as he couldn't prove renewal to be necessary.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think ex-cops and ex-military officers get a lifetime portación license. I few years ago, I read a story in the papers about a retired Military officer who shot his own grandson to death when he saw him entering the house through a window at night. The kid was coming back from a party, and the speculation was he lost the keys and didn't want to ring the bell and wake everyone. But the dead can't talk and we'll never know. I'd expected an "expert" to at least ask the stranger he (according to the story) was aiming at from a safe position in the dark to identify himself before pulling the trigger. If the old "soldier" showed such poor judgment in his own house, I don't want to imagine what such impulsive reaction could have led to in a crowded place, in front of real criminals.
4. My own conclusion: it takes some adrenaline-proof nerves to use a gun responsibly. I'm sure very few people could manage dangerous situations while showing good judgement. I know I can't. The only time I had a gun on my face I trembled like a leaf, and thanks Providence I peed soon before or I assure you I'd have wet my pants. Yes, I was 15. So what? I couldn't handle the situation then, but nothing in the 20 years since that moment made me prepared to handle it now. Would a gun be helpful in my trembling hand? Could I control the situation? I'd settle for being able to control my sphincters.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A MORE DANGEROUS ONE. Only cops should carry guns. Almost everyone in this country hates cops. I don't. You know why? Because they took a f*cking dangerous job and they risk their lives everyday just by wearing their uniforms (let alone catching criminals). Yes, a large group of them are corrupt, bribe-talking and reactionary. Still, they go out every day not knowing if they'll make it back home alive, and they'll come to my aid if a called them. They have my respect. Only those living a real criminal double life don't. I can put up with the bribing a**hole who'd still put his life on the line to save mine if he had to.
1. I'd NEVER carry one. As I said before, I was robbed seven times at a very young age. I was beaten up like the thread starter at age 12. Still, I don't want a gun. I don't want a gun in my home, let alone in on me. There's a Spanish say: "Las armas las carga el diablo y las descargan las descargan los idiotas". It means "Guns are loaded by de devil and unloaded (meaning shot) by the idiot." I firmly believe that phrase points a universal truth that should be understood as a warning: GUNS CAN RAISE HELL AND TAKE LIVES. Let's walk through this point VERY carefully. By pulling the trigger, you're starting something you can bet your life (I used italics to avoid the ironic twist) will likely end with someone dead or severely injured. You better be 100% sure you must shoot your opponent before he shoots you, and you better be 1000% sure by the end of the shooting it will be either you or him lying on the ground AND NO ONE ELSE. Which takes me to my next point:
2. A gun may save your life, but my very well land you in prison as well. The Judge in charge of your case will need very solid reasons to think you're innocent of killing the poor unlucky man, woman or child you shot in the process of saving your ass, if such were the case. I'm not a lawyer and I'm overreaching myself , but to show how ugly and complicated a situation involving firearms could get if gone astray.
3. As far as I'm concerned, there are two formal legal permits for owning a gun in my country: TENENCIA, and PORTACION.
This is what gun owners told me:
- Tenencia: It's a limited license you have to apply for in order to keep a loaded gun INSIDE your residence. Say, if someone broke into your home without warning and with unclear intentions (the Police wouldn't brake in without calling you out first, I want to believe...
), I guess you could assume the situation is threatening enough to go for your gun. I'd also suppose the Judge in charge of your case would understand you couldn't afford waiting to see if the invader were a robber, a rapist, OBL who escaped once again , a serial killer or your drunk friends wanting to scare you. Most importantly, you were stopping someone who broke into your private residence. It can't get more self-defense than that, yet you'd have to go through some thorough interrogation for sure. If you want to go to a shooting range to shoot some rounds for practice, your gun must be unloaded all the time from your doorstep to the shooting booth. If you go by car and if I remember right, you must keep your empty gun in the car's trunk and bullets/magazine in the glove compartment. I don't know the procedure for walking, but unloading is the first thing for sure.
- Portación: You're allowed to carry a loaded gun anywhere, anytime. They don't just "give" this license. It's not like applying for a driving license, even if a professional one. Getting Portación granted takes much more than proving you're sane and a proficient shooter. Let me be frank: I feel bad for anyone with reasons worth being granted one. The only person I knew to posses one was the father of a very close friend. An electronic engineer, founder and owner of a PyME-size E.E. company, he was working on an installation in some small country town (BA province). Apparently, the solitary road he had to take to get there was proven to be dangerous enough for being reasonable to keep a loaded gun on the driver's seat (at least that's where my friend's father kept it). He got it revoked a couple years later as he couldn't prove renewal to be necessary.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think ex-cops and ex-military officers get a lifetime portación license. I few years ago, I read a story in the papers about a retired Military officer who shot his own grandson to death when he saw him entering the house through a window at night. The kid was coming back from a party, and the speculation was he lost the keys and didn't want to ring the bell and wake everyone. But the dead can't talk and we'll never know. I'd expected an "expert" to at least ask the stranger he (according to the story) was aiming at from a safe position in the dark to identify himself before pulling the trigger. If the old "soldier" showed such poor judgment in his own house, I don't want to imagine what such impulsive reaction could have led to in a crowded place, in front of real criminals.
4. My own conclusion: it takes some adrenaline-proof nerves to use a gun responsibly. I'm sure very few people could manage dangerous situations while showing good judgement. I know I can't. The only time I had a gun on my face I trembled like a leaf, and thanks Providence I peed soon before or I assure you I'd have wet my pants. Yes, I was 15. So what? I couldn't handle the situation then, but nothing in the 20 years since that moment made me prepared to handle it now. Would a gun be helpful in my trembling hand? Could I control the situation? I'd settle for being able to control my sphincters.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A MORE DANGEROUS ONE. Only cops should carry guns. Almost everyone in this country hates cops. I don't. You know why? Because they took a f*cking dangerous job and they risk their lives everyday just by wearing their uniforms (let alone catching criminals). Yes, a large group of them are corrupt, bribe-talking and reactionary. Still, they go out every day not knowing if they'll make it back home alive, and they'll come to my aid if a called them. They have my respect. Only those living a real criminal double life don't. I can put up with the bribing a**hole who'd still put his life on the line to save mine if he had to.
CedarPawn
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Hache said:
That is, and ought to be, your decision alone.
[/QUOTE] GUNS CAN RAISE HELL AND TAKE LIVES. Let's walk through this point VERY carefully. By pulling the trigger, you're starting something you can bet your life (I used italics to avoid the ironic twist) will likely end with someone dead or severely injured. You better be 100% sure you must shoot your opponent before he shoots you, and you better be 1000% sure by the end of the shooting it will be either you or him lying on the ground AND NO ONE ELSE. [/QUOTE]
Agreed. That's kind of the point of carrying one, to be used if need be. I find the fact that all that even needs to be explicitly stated a bit comical, and begin to wonder if my opposition might be correct in asserting that the average person is too stupid to handle the grave responsibility of a firearm.
[/QUOTE]2. A gun may save your life, but my very well land you in prison as well. The Judge in charge of your case will need very solid reasons to think you're innocent of killing the poor unlucky man, woman or child you shot in the process of saving your ass, if such were the case. I'm not a lawyer and I'm overreaching myself , but to show how ugly and complicated a situation involving firearms could get if gone astray. [/QUOTE]
If I kill in legitimate self defence and am prosecuted, the problem lies not with me or the gun itself, but rather with the now deceased agressor and the judge/system for failing to regognize my natural right to self preservation. If I kill an innocent, than I am guilty of murder (or maybe manslaughter) and should be tried according to the law. Is that such a complex idea?
[/QUOTE]3. As far as I'm concerned, there are two formal legal permits for owning a gun in my country: TENENCIA, and PORTACION.
This is what gun owners told me:
- Tenencia: It's a limited license you have to apply for in order to keep a loaded gun INSIDE your residence. Say, if someone broke into your home without warning and with unclear intentions (the Police wouldn't brake in without calling you out first, I want to believe...
), I guess you could assume the situation is threatening enough to go for your gun. I'd also suppose the Judge in charge of your case would understand you couldn't afford waiting to see if the invader were a robber, a rapist, OBL who escaped once again , a serial killer or your drunk friends wanting to scare you. Most importantly, you were stopping someone who broke into your private residence. It can't get more self-defense than that, yet you'd have to go through some thorough interrogation for sure. If you want to go to a shooting range to shoot some rounds for practice, your gun must be unloaded all the time from your doorstep to the shooting booth. If you go by car and if I remember right, you must keep your empty gun in the car's trunk and bullets/magazine in the glove compartment. I don't know the procedure for walking, but unloading is the first thing for sure.
- Portación: You're allowed to carry a loaded gun anywhere, anytime. They don't just "give" this license. It's not like applying for a driving license, even if a professional one. Getting Portación granted takes much more than proving you're sane and a proficient shooter. Let me be frank: I feel bad for anyone with reasons worth being granted one. The only person I knew to posses one was the father of a very close friend. An electronic engineer, founder and owner of a PyME-size E.E. company, he was working on an installation in some small country town (BA province). Apparently, the solitary road he had to take to get there was proven to be dangerous enough for being reasonable to keep a loaded gun on the driver's seat (at least that's where my friend's father kept it). He got it revoked a couple years later as he couldn't prove renewal to be necessary.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for that, very informative.
[/QUOTE]My own conclusion: it takes some adrenaline-proof nerves to use a gun responsibly. I'm sure very few people could manage dangerous situations while showing good judgement. I know I can't. The only time I had a gun on my face I trembled like a leaf, and thanks Providence I peed soon before or I assure you I'd have wet my pants. Yes, I was 15. So what? I couldn't handle the situation then, but nothing in the 20 years since that moment made me prepared to handle it now. Would a gun be helpful in my trembling hand? Could I control the situation? I'd settle for being able to control my sphincters.[/QUOTE]
I bet you could do just fine, with a little practice and familiarization.
[/QUOTE]AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A MORE DANGEROUS ONE. [/QUOTE]
That may or may not be true, but criminals will be armed regardless of the law, and I'd like a level playing field. In the long run, what's really dangerous is hoplophobia among the law abiding public.
CedarPawn said:
Its about self preservation. If you are ready to die for a cellphone or the cash in your wallet, you are welcome to do it. Be ware of not killing someone innocent in the process.
Myself, I'd rather deal with the loss and move on than see the grass grow from underneath.
