Best country to move to when life in Argentina becomes intolerable

[elhombresinnombre]

Given the name of this site, i assume the question is directed toward expats who have the ability to move to another country when life in Argentina becomes intolerable.

With that in mind, I'd be interested in hearing from other expats what it would take for them to be unable to tolerate life in Argentina.

Endless lines and/or not enough cash available at ATM's if the peso really collapses?

Endless lines and food shortages in grocery stores if the peso really collapses?

Endless strikes and protests which seriously disrupt transportation (including the delivery of food and supplies to retailers)?

A massive increase in the level of street crime (including armed robberies in restaurants)?

PS: I'd like to say that I'm not moving either, come hell or high water, but a 2 meter tsunami that flows 2 kilometers inland would change everything.

Fortunately, the tsunami that has been predicted to hit Argentina will not originate offshore..

OR:

None of the above.

I'm only a part-timer but I've been a part-timer since 2002 and have experienced the lows and highs during that time. The only thing that would turn me away is if the people I love were to move elsewhere. Having said that, in all these years, the last two months have been the only time I've seen those people seriously studying their other citizenship options.

 

[Ries]

Just for the record, I dont own any John Lobb shoes. nor does my wife have any Gucci anything. She did buy one Lopez handbag.

And I am not leaving Argentina, selling my apartment, no matter what.

 

[steveinbsas]

Yes I love Mexico and its food is a great plus. Is it easy for expats to get residency there ?

it isn't difficult to get an FM3 visa to stay year round in Mexico.

I lived in Sayulita for five and a half years before coming to Argentina in 2006.

I have no desire to return, even for a brief visit.

 

[perry]

Given the name of this site, i assume the question is directed toward expats who have the ability to move to another country when life in Argentina becomes intolerable.

With that in mind, I'd be interested in hearing from other expats what it would take for them to be unable to tolerate life in Argentina.

Endless lines and/or not enough cash available at ATM's if the peso really collapses?

Endless lines and food shortages in grocery stores if the peso really collapses?

Endless strikes and protests which seriously disrupt transportation (including the delivery of food and supplies to retailers)?

A massive increase in the level of street crime (including armed robberies in restaurants)?

PS: I'd like to say that I'm not moving either, come hell or high water, but a 2 meter tsunami that flows 2 kilometers inland would change everything.

Fortunately, the tsunami that has been predicted to hit Argentina will not originate offshore..

The financial system in Argentina is nearly destroyed and this affects greatly expats life . If expats could not recieve their dollars here most would leave . The hoops that one must do just to recieve some meager amounts of cash cause incredible frustation in expats and this will get worse in the next year with more financial controls .

To make money in Argentina is now nearly impossible if you have a business here . The start up costs and taxes are very high . the local currency is nearly worthless , the banking system is the most beaurocratic in the world .

I have two credit cards here and will be cancelling them soon as they are a huge liability . The interest rate now is over 170% per year , if you happen to use them for dollar purchasers they do not take the daily exchange rate but leave the debt in dollars until its paid in full . This does not happen in any country on earth as debts in foreign currencies are calculated on a daily basis and converted in the local currency .

To top it off the agressiveness of banks here is outrageous .If you are just two days late from making a minimal payment that will call you in a very harassing manner asking you to make a payment . There is no concept of customer service and the client is treated as a cash machine to exploit .

These are the main gripes of foreigners and I feel it wil get much more complicated soon. Regarding crime I have not seen a increase as yet but have noticed a huge increase of people asking for financial help on the streets and some are very demanding . What I have always admired about the argentinian people is their dignity in the face of adversity but of course when there is no chance to feed your family it becomes a dog eat dog society as has happened in Venezuela now the most violent society on earth . Crime can go through the roof quite easily in a complete financial crash and if the peso becomes worthless this is a definite possibility .

I personally believe that a world financial crash is also on the cards but Argentina will fall first . The USA and Europe maybe in two or three years . I believe that preppers that have their 2 hectares of productive land with solar power and a supply of fresh water and food are going to survive this coming period . I have known expats who live like this in Argentina and Peru and this could be the future in a world where money becomes worthless .

 

[Ceviche]

Quite a dramatic post, Perry. But mostly true.

 

[sts7049]

i'm here on a work assignment. once that assignment is over, i'm leaving. simple as that for me.

if the mierda hits the fan, well, i guess we will have to see what happens. it is likely that my company would help me do whatever is necessary.

my argie girlfriend wants to leave the country as well.

 

[Joglide]

But what possible similarities are there to a life in Buenos Aires to Asuncion? BA has 650 small theaters. 4 or 5 different music choices a night. 10,000 restaurants. Manufacturers of all kinds of materials and tools and products. A lively music, fashion, art, architecture, dance, literature, and film scene. A highly educated creative class. Paraguay has Mennonites and old fascists... and, I am sure, some very nice people.


Is it really only about cheap? is that why you are all here?
[/QUOTE]

Refreshing to see Argentina's rich cultural offering celebrated here. We all benefit. The other darker side of the BA moonlight are the desperate conditions in some of the unfashionable barrios. Though these places are often summarised as 'dangerous' and delinquent or crime-ridden, my limited experience of visiting is that they are crowded with mostly decent, desperately struggling poor people whose cultural resources and expression turn on survival and collective (usually family) support. A lot of that culture is inevitably political - about the struggle to survive, evident in graffiti art. Hopefully its not over optimistic to say that it should help them get through the tormenta that is coming.

 

[nanu]

I did a poor job of clarifying my remarks. Exports in general are not always a great positive for an economy. The fact that Argentina exports a decent amount of automobiles and/or auto parts, steel, is not very constructive for the Argentine economy. Finished metals, oil, undifferentiated products, etc... such exports do very little for an economy. Last I checked, there was no "Argentina Motors."

Argentina may export autos and metals, but it does so as a hub of production or hub of distribution for a foreign firm. That Fiat has a plant in Argentina and exports lots of cars to Brazil, does not do a ton for the Argentine economy. Don't get me wrong; it ain't bad. But it ain't what I'm talking about.

The greatest economic benefit is derived from international champions in highly profitable industries. Think Microsoft, Disney, Coca Cola, Caterpillar, Johnson & Johnson, Visa... these are the monsters of international trade. I mean "monsters" in a positive way. These firms dominate industries worldwide. They have low asset bases, high profitability, huge employments, massive market capitalizations on stock markets, they borrow at cheaper rates than most sovereign governments, they produce enormous tax revenues for Treasury. Exporters such as these are what drives the export engine of an economy.

These firms have enormous "comparative advantages" over international competitors, which makes them hard to beat. They have profitably exported for a long time and probability is high that they will continue to do so. Argentina has no such entities. And since they typically take decades to build, this is why I said there is nothing I see on the Argentine horizon that makes me optimistic in this area.

the govt encourages bankrupcy. 43000 so far with Macri. The same with peronists who started this demagogic solution and a weak government (Macri).

 

[nanu]

But what possible similarities are there to a life in Buenos Aires to Asuncion? BA has 650 small theaters. 4 or 5 different music choices a night. 10,000 restaurants. Manufacturers of all kinds of materials and tools and products. A lively music, fashion, art, architecture, dance, literature, and film scene. A highly educated creative class. Paraguay has Mennonites and old fascists... and, I am sure, some very nice people.


Is it really only about cheap? is that why you are all here?

Refreshing to see Argentina's rich cultural offering celebrated here. We all benefit. The other darker side of the BA moonlight are the desperate conditions in some of the unfashionable barrios. Though these places are often summarised as 'dangerous' and delinquent or crime-ridden, my limited experience of visiting is that they are crowded with mostly decent, desperately struggling poor people whose cultural resources and expression turn on survival and collective (usually family) support. A lot of that culture is inevitably political - about the struggle to survive, evident in graffiti art. Hopefully its not over optimistic to say that it should help them get through the tormenta that is coming.
[/QUOTE]
what about skid row in california? Detroit?

 

[nanu]

Refreshing to see Argentina's rich cultural offering celebrated here. We all benefit. The other darker side of the BA moonlight are the desperate conditions in some of the unfashionable barrios. Though these places are often summarised as 'dangerous' and delinquent or crime-ridden, my limited experience of visiting is that they are crowded with mostly decent, desperately struggling poor people whose cultural resources and expression turn on survival and collective (usually family) support. A lot of that culture is inevitably political - about the struggle to survive, evident in graffiti art. Hopefully its not over optimistic to say that it should help them get through the tormenta that is coming.

what about skid row in california? Detroit?
[/QUOTE]
the onle thing you get in Paraguay are oranges. It was the place for nazis ( much more than Arg) esprcislly Italians fleeing from the new regime and hiding Mussolini's
money. Lots of smuggling down the river also.