Buenos Aires Is More Expensive Than New York, London, Madrid

[scotttswan]

I meant they were comparing products in a biased way, and again, I'm not a CFK fan at all. But they compare instant coffee.. chicken nuggets..lays. I'm just saying that we all know many things are cheaper here and they didn't mention any of those things. Meat, produce, dairy. All I'm saying is that you can convey a more appealing message if it looks fair and balanced, ironically that's exactly what Fox News fails to do, hence no one takes them seriously. If Clarin wants to show they really are right (and they normally are), they gotta stop taking cheap shots like this. That's all.

And I never said they should compare buns here with lays in London, that's ridiculous.

Three out of the four products they highlighted are all made here from local raw goods and in local factories are they not? ( I have no idea about Argentina's coffee production)

I'd think in the UK out of those three only the chicken nuggets would be imported, although there are factories in the UK producing chicken nuggets too, with the EU common market these things are made and sold all over Europe.

I'd bet the British/European workers are paid more than their equivalents here so the extra costs here in Argentina are occurring where?

If you read the article they do talk about things that are cheaper here.

 

[trennod]

The only thing more expensive here should be rent and a few imported products.

Why would lays be more expensive here? They are produced here and local wages are a fraction of the cost of in those other cities.

 

[trennod]

I meant they were comparing products in a biased way, and again, I'm not a CFK fan at all. But they compare instant coffee.. chicken nuggets..lays. I'm just saying that we all know many things are cheaper here and they didn't mention any of those things. Meat, produce, dairy. All I'm saying is that you can convey a more appealing message if it looks fair and balanced, ironically that's exactly what Fox News fails to do, hence no one takes them seriously. If Clarin wants to show they really are right (and they normally are), they gotta stop taking cheap shots like this. That's all.

And I never said they should compare buns here with lays in London, that's ridiculous.

How could they compare dairy products that are different brands? And meat? What sense would that make when you could put the difference down to quality. It's like the Big Mac index they have tried to reproduce here.

 

[Ries]

I am amazed that you use 2300 pounds a month as an average London salary.
To me, as someone from the USA, that is a lot of money. Where I live, only professionals make that much- if you are in retail, or food service, manufacturing, agriculture, or many of the kinds of jobs that an expat would have in BsAs, you wont be making that much, BEFORE taxes- and after taxes, much less.
In fact, that 9000 pesos a month- thats above minimum wage here in the USA, and many many people I know here dont take home that much.

So- I know a LOT of americans who make the same, or less, in Real Dollars/Pesos, than the "typical" argentine- and a lot of things up here cost quite a bit more- most people I know who are working class spend close to half their income on rent, and generally have no health insurance at all- contrast that with Argentina, where basic health care is free, and rents are much lower, and many foodstuffs are cheaper. I still think its much cheaper in Argentina.

 

[stevec]

London
Av salary per month £2300
Salary minus rent £1550 (-R)

London rent 750 per month? I take it you're room-sharing somewhere in Bethnal Green. I was paying 150 pounds per week for a studio (smaller than my current BA bedroom) six or seven years ago.

I agree. To be honest I struggle to see how people live here on their salaries. Most recent shopping bill was 500 pesos for 2 weeks worth of food max.

Even at official rate, $100 (US) buys about three days worth of food in Australia. And you have to eat it within three days as, thanks to the Coles/Woolworths monopoly, any fruit or vegetables you buy have been frozen for the last six months pre-sale and basically self-destruct as you pass through the checkouts.

Compared to Australia, New Zealand, or London, BA offers incredible value. Compared to Toulouse it's a bit closer but BA still shades it.

Couple of things K and I factor in: a trip to the theatre or, say, any Australian major city's symphony orchestra (that are not much chop by international standards I might add), costs us minimum $60 Aus (say $50 US atm) for the theatre each and Aus $80 each for the orchestra. that's three or four hundred pesos, each, for a night out. Without drinks or parking. And the venue is some ugly contemporary thing, certainly no Teatro Colon. No standing tickets for the less wealthy. Whereas here, we were at Carmen last week for about 20 bucks between us. Had a bottle of Chandon beforehand for ten dollars. Same brand in Australia is 25. (A bit more pleasant in Oz, I concede.) And don't get me started on a restaurant meal and all the free galleries here.

 

[amsam]

Having just gotten here from NYC, it looks to me like the biggest problem with Clarín's chart is that it probably uses the official exchange rate. At the blue rate, BsAs overall is muuuch cheaper. Rent way cheaper, groceries ditto, as stevec said entertainment too, the subte is actually no worse than the MTA (if you don't mind the graffiti) and about 1/8 the price. What surprised me is that clothes and nice household goods look to cost about the same here (at the blue rate) as they do in NY. So that must make them very expensive for Porteños, given that NY salaries are correspondingly higher.

Borracho is right that the real way to compare these things is as a percentage of median income. Though it seems he runs with a swanky crowd. )

 

[scotttswan]

Having just gotten here from NYC, it looks to me like the biggest problem with Clarín's chart is that it probably uses the official exchange rate. At the blue rate, BsAs overall is muuuch cheaper.

Most locals and a lot of expats don't earn at the blue rate.

 

[Alicia karr]

The elephant in the room in all of this is healthcare. A HUGE expense for anyone living in NY or any other North American city. Here it's either free or you pay about one quarter of the cost that you'd have to pay in the US for private insurance.. That one item alone blows all these budget comparisons to pieces in my book. And how about the costs of pharmaceuticals here vs the other places?!

 

[amsam]

Most locals and a lot of expats don't earn at the blue rate.

Absolutely-- foreign exchange doesn't come into most people's daily lives at all-- part of why it makes sense to look at costs as % of median income.

 

[Ries]

Absolutely-- foreign exchange doesn't come into most people's daily lives at all-- part of why it makes sense to look at costs as % of median income.

As long as you include the cost of health insurance in the USA, as well as education costs, and factor in the relatively low ACTUAL incomes in the US, as opposed to the imaginary "median" which is the average of all of us working folks, and Bill gates.
If you do this, you find that, for example, in Seattle, a family of four is supposed to need $70,000 USD/ 379,749. Pesos per year to live a basic lifestyle- and that is assuming a rent of $1100 US a month, which, in Seattle, is fantasy- a three bedroom apartment or house is at least double that-
http://kuow.org/post/study-family-seattle-needs-70000-year-live-modestly

so, according to this study, if you look at costs as a percentage of median income, it costs MORE to live in Seattle than Buenos Aires, since they say that "living modestly" requires more than the median income.

Similar factors occur all over the USA- utilities, for example, are more than in Argentina. In many places, real estate taxes if you own are much more than argentina. Child care, school, and college are all far more than Argentina. Auto expenses are unavoidable in most parts of the USA, where there is virtually no public transportation, and the average car costs $30,000, and auto insurance is another couple grand a year at a minimum, assuming you are old, and dont get tickets.
Basically, a gigantic portion of your income in the USA goes to stuff that you dont even need to buy in Argentina, especially if you live in the city.