Buenos Aires - not for the faint hearted

[citygirl]

Wow - not the update I hoped to read. Good luck today when you go back.

 

[Celia]

I was told by many sources that to get habilitacion in the first place, you have to grease palms. It's not my cup of tea, but I was advised there was no way round these practices and it was wrong of me to judge it through my european eyes, it was a cultural thing & if I couldn't do it, I'd have to get someone to do it for me...
Probs why I decided against business here so far.
David, what does your gestor advise??

 

[Davidglen77]

Of course, the gestora I hired to get the habilitacion the in the first place, has not surprisingly told me that there is nothing she can do.
In terms for greasing palms, maybe that is the way it is, but in this office of habilitaciones at calle Perón 2933, there are signs up that say "DO NOT USE A GESTOR" habilitacion is a trámite personal that is free. They also offer assesment by habilitación agents on site also supposedly for free, but I don't see anybody in the office (and it's a big office 100+ employees) that has a sign next to them that says they can help you. They just send you from place to place.

 

[Davidglen77]

So after waiting all morning and a grueling 3 weeks, I finally was able to sit down with the person that handles these issues. He reviewed my file, and showed me all of the back and forth that they had done with it. He also pointed out to me that the reason my shop was closed was an error on their part. They have my location down as a "historic district" when it´s actually a "general commercial" district which allows any type of business that doesn't involve heavy manufacturing or warehousing of grain and agricultural products. So he gives me a note with a bunch of legal terms, which in effect is a directive to remove the closure. However this afternoon at 2PM I have to see the "director of closures" to appeal to have it lifted since it's THEIR error. If the director is not willing to do it (which they may not since it's an admission of guilt and therefore liability), I have to wait 10-15 working days for an appeal. The nightmare continues.......

 

[nikad]

So after waiting all morning and a grueling 3 weeks, I finally was able to sit down with the person that handles these issues. He reviewed my file, and showed me all of the back and forth that they had done with it. He also pointed out to me that the reason my shop was closed was an error on their part. They have my location down as a "historic district" when it´s actually a "general commercial" district which allows any type of business that doesn't involve heavy manufacturing or warehousing of grain and agricultural products. So he gives me a note with a bunch of legal terms, which in effect is a directive to remove the closure. However this afternoon at 2PM I have to see the "director of closures" to appeal to have it lifted since it's THEIR error. If the director is not willing to do it (which they may not since it's an admission of guilt and therefore liability), I have to wait 10-15 working days for an appeal. The nightmare continues.......

This is good news. However if I was you I would sue them for all the damages, losses etc that this have caused you. Lawyers that work with this type of cases will not charge anything in advance and will instead take a cut on the claimed amount once you get payed. ie: an eye for an eye...

 

[Davidglen77]

Your situation sucks for sure.

One thing that sort of bothers me about it are when people say, that it is "a cultural thing" and "this is the way things have always been done" and therefore should be unquestionably simply done...well, my thinking is that at one point somewhere...in some culture, human sacrifice, cannibalism, and other things were also practiced and were "cultural things". Should we not question the morality of those practices and simply think how wonderful and rich it makes a particular culture and join in?

I think not.

It bothers me too, even more now, you can't even imagine how much. I love my Argentine friends, customers, my partner who is the most wonderful person in the world, and the interesting mix of cultures here, however the city government is run like a mideval corrupt monarchy which has destroyed the viability of this city. I will stand my ground, I am going to take legal action as well as make this situation public ALL OVER THE INTERNET so people know what the Buenos Aires city government does to destroy the moral of it's citizens. I used to believe in Macri and his new sidewalks, plazas, subway stations, however like people told me "it's just a front" there is NOTHING AT ALL BEHIND THE FACE it's just a dog and pony show to cover up the hardships that the citizens of Capital Federal face every day at the hands of the Mauricio Macri administration.

 

[starlucia]

I will stand my ground, I am going to take legal action as well as make this situation public ALL OVER THE INTERNET so people know what the Buenos Aires city government does to destroy the moral of it's citizens.

Well-done. Actually, just this morning my Argentine partner said something similar (I've been reading her the updates, as we've both been just horrified): she thinks you should write a book, or a magazine piece, a blog, anything that will help expose the reality of trying to do business here. Even though Buenos Aires fancies itself European, and likes to market itself as such, the corruption and government-sanctioned bullying is 100% third-world South American.

 

[MizzMarr]

So Monday I am in my store and a whole pack of police officers come in and tell me that I can´t stay open as they have on file that my store has been shut down and application for habilitación suspended. While they weren´t agressive they meant business. I told them that I had spoken to habilitaciones and was trying to resolve the situation as soon as possible and they said ok we will let you stay open today but if you don't have proof by tomorrow that this is resolved we have ...
You see here I am caught in the black hole of government in Argentina and I am not seeing a way out. This had truly turned out to be my absolute worst nightmare come true.

So THIS is what the police do when they're not playing video games.

That sucks! I am so sorry to hear this, David. We're rooting for you and hope that you escape this bureaucratic red-tape-hole ASAP. "Culture" does not equal corruption!! I'm sad for Argentina if this is how things continue to play out here... ultmately there will be no victor. If there is one, I hope it starts with you!

 

[Davidglen77]

So it gets even better, for those who have been following this today I got confirmation from Habilitaciones that they had an error in their files. They gave me a letter that I had to take to Faltas Especiales, who is responsible for giving the ok to the police to lift the closure. Of course they only see people from 2 to 6 in the afternoon. So I get there at 2PM get a number wait half an hour. The same people who sent me away yesterday meet me and look at the letter. They reject it. So I ask what it has to say for them to remove the closure. Their response is "you have to find that out yourself". I asked the person in charge who is named Doctora Irene Carreira to call down to the lobby where habilitaciones is located so they can give her the letter with the info she needs and her response is "I don´t call anybody, go speak to them yourself". Of course they only receive people from 8:30 AM to 1PM. So at this point I lose it and start screaming at her, so she goes in an office with a glass window and shuts the door. Security starts coming over and asks me whats wrong and I start telling them. Luckily the gentleman who gave me the letter this morning was still in the building and he was outraged at this, went up to this animal Doctora Irene Carreira to speak with her. She reluctantly told him what she wants, so here I am once again waiting and waiting for a resolution. The nightmare continues.......