Bus Lane Ruins 9 De Julio

[sergio]

Who came up with the idiotic idea of a bus lane on 9 de julio? If it were a tram line it might make sense (eco-sensitive, efficient, quiet) but a bus? The shelters are ugly, really destroy the aesthetic of the avenue and will soon be coveted with graffiti and become homeless shelters. Que pena.

 

[Napoleon]

Who came up with the idiotic idea of a bus lane on 9 de julio? If it were a tram line it might make sense (eco-sensitive, efficient, quiet) but a bus? The shelters are ugly, really destroy the aesthetic of the avenue and will soon be coveted with graffiti and become homeless shelters. Que pena.

The Tram Idea would be a RIDICULOUS idea.

Are you saying that the buses coming from other parts of the city should:
1: Stop
2: Have the passengers get off the bus
3: Have the passengers get on a tram
4: Have the tram go to the other end of 9 de Julio
5: Have the passengers get off the tram
6: Have the passengers get on buses waiting to pick them up?

Thank goodness you're NOT a city planner.

Great idea and it will definitely help with the time it takes to get across town for passengers. This will in turn invite more people to take a Bus vs Taxi or Car.

It's nice to see someone attempting to use logic to tackle the transportation problems of the city. AND... walking in the microcenter no longer means having to step off of the curb into the street (possibly getting run over) just to get by people on the sidewalk.

Gracias Mauricio!

 

[sergio]

Napoleon, why are you so aggressive in your response? Can't we have a civil discussion without being rude?

There are various ways of improving public transport. Some possibilities:

1) A private tramway to Constitucion on 9 de julio + bus lanes.
2) Possible diverting of some buses to other routes.
3) Free public transport - a progressive idea proposed many years ago by former Pennsylvania Governor Milton Shapp.

Carving out bus lanes on 9 de julio with ugly shelters seems unfortunate when a tramline could operate efficiently without interfering with motor traffic. Trams, of course, need to be connected to metro and rail stations. The tram line on Alem is a joke. If it began in Retiro and ended somewhere like San Telmo it would make sense. As it is, it's a line from nowhere to nowhere. The design wasn't mine but some genius in BA's city government.

 

[internationalguy]

3) Free public transport - a progressive idea proposed many years ago by former Pennsylvania Governor Milton Shapp.

You mean like the free trains that are in such great shape?

When will people understand there is no such thing as a free lunch. "Socialism" has only really worked in Scandinavian countries (and there's still a free market plus those people work their *** off every day and everything they have there works great). Trying to impose socialism without the cultural transformation or adequate reforms is just silly. I won't work here, in the US of O, or in any other place for that matter.

 

[amsam]

I agree with Sergio that Napoleon, that was rude. But I agree with Napoleon that the colectivo lines are so ingrained in the city's public transit infrastructure that the best thing to do with 9 de J is to make them flow efficiently and apart from regular traffic. I have to say, those bus shelters look pretty high-end to me, and I just got here from the US. Sure they're gonna get covered with graffiti, but that won't make them any worse than anything else in BsAs. (And tram stations would get just as covered...)

 

[scotttswan]

I never got the 9 de julio thing anyway, its basically a motorway through the centre of the city that is a bitch to cross.

There should be more bus lanes through the whole city to make it quicker to get through.

Can't wait til 2015 when this is what the subway system is supposed to look like.

Buenos Aires Minister of Finance Néstor Grindetti has signed a 15-year loan agreement with China for US$1·4bn to fund metro Line G. Construction of the 12·5 km line with 15 stations between Retiro and El Cid Campeador by Chinese contractors is due to start in 2012.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/urban-rail-news-in-brief-12.html

I wonder how far along they are.

 

[Napoleon]

Napoleon, why are you so aggressive in your response? Can't we have a civil discussion without being rude?

I agree with Sergio that Napoleon, that was rude.

Well I apologize, but actually I was holding back. I really tempered my response because the OP was (1) Completely damning of something that is a huge positive and (2) The OP obviously doesn't understand the situation.

There are various ways of improving public transport. Some possibilities:

1) A private tramway to Constitucion on 9 de julio + bus lanes.
2) Possible diverting of some buses to other routes.
3) Free public transport - a progressive idea proposed many years ago by former Pennsylvania Governor Milton Shapp.

Carving out bus lanes on 9 de julio with ugly shelters seems unfortunate when a tramline could operate efficiently without interfering with motor traffic. Trams, of course, need to be connected to metro and rail stations. The tram line on Alem is a joke. If it began in Retiro and ended somewhere like San Telmo it would make sense. As it is, it's a line from nowhere to nowhere. The design wasn't mine but some genius in BA's city government.

But I agree with Napoleon that the colectivo lines are so ingrained in the city's public transit infrastructure that the best thing to do with 9 de J is to make them flow efficiently and apart from regular traffic. I have to say, those bus shelters look pretty high-end to me, and I just got here from the US. Sure they're gonna get covered with graffiti, but that won't make them any worse than anything else in BsAs. (And tram stations would get just as covered...)

I will now politely point out the flaws in Sergio's suggestions that I've quoted above:

1) There is already a "Private Tramway" on 9 de Julio
-It's been taken UNDERGROUND, or "Subterranean"...
-It's called "SUBTE C"... others refer to it as "THE BLUE LINE", though Subte A is also a blue... just a lighter shade.
-sergio wrote: "[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]If it began in Retiro and ended somewhere like San Telmo it would make sense."[/background]
_-_OK, maybe you're just pulling my leg, because you even wrote out the path of Subte C.

2) Diverting of the bus routes IS being done.
-However, the bus routes are being diverted FROM Esmeralda & Maipu TO Av. 9 de Julio
-As mentioned in my "rude" response, the diversion of bus routes is part of making the microcenter more Bike & Pedestrian Friendly
-Agree that Diverting Bus Routes is an EXCELLENT idea, just agree with the City Planners' plan over Sergio's

3) Free Public Transport is ALSO being done
-The City Bikes are FREE
-Over 100kms of Bike Lanes have been added to the city
-Suipacha, which runs parallel to Av. 9 de Julio contains one such bike lane from ~Av. Santa Fe all the say to Av. de Mayo.
-Soon the FREE City Bikes will be available 24/7

4) Bus Shelters
-Agree with amsam that the shelters look "pretty high-end" to me too
-By putting the shelters in the middle, well lit, and protected by the berms, they will be
_-_"Easier to police for passenger safety" in the middle of the night, which is something I whole-heartedly welcome
_-_Less likely to be defaced by La Camporitos/as assigned the homework of defacing City Property
-Have proven to be a success along Bullrich/Juan B. Justo
-And agree with amsam again that I don't understand how "Tram Stations" wouldn't get covered by graffiti, but bus stations will. (Mind boggling.)

5) Finishing with "Being 'RUDE'"
-The OP started with: "[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Who came up with the idiotic idea of a bus lane on 9 de julio?"[/background]

The only thing "idiotic" was the tone and the argument of the OP. Really close to shocking how out of left field it was/still is. Poo-pooing an attempt at actually IMPROVING transportation in this city which is staggeringly miserable. The time it takes to cover short distances is shockingly embarrassing.

Two Fridays ago I literally got OUT of the van I was riding in to run ahead to each intersection to try to help direct traffic so that the van could get from Arroyo & Cerrito (9 de Julio) to 25 de Mayo highway so that a family wouldn't miss their flight. It literally took 1 hour to go roughly 26 to 28 blocks. I could have WALKED IT in about 45 minutes, but then the family would have had to pull their luggage through traffic on the horrible sidewalks of this city.

Thankfully Mauricio Macri (and friends) are fighting against the president and all of her minions (which have included the Mothers of May on this topic) to actually try SOMETHING to improve traffic in this city. Short of completely tearing down an entirely new strip of city blocks from Av. Libertador south to the 25 de Mayo highway (which is what was done over the course of 30 years to create the Av. 9 de Julio), the bus lane appears to be the most promising option.

Bravo Mauricio for actually trying SOMETHING!

 

[cbonanni]

Rudeness aside , it may not be the best thing , but at least it is something. SO little has been invested in infrastructure , that even a ugly controversial project deserves some kudos for even being an attempt to help.

I am so glad I do not live down there. I'll take my peaceful , quite Zona Norte any day......

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

Please, 9 de julio is not the champs elysee, it has very few redeeming features. Reducing traffic and improving the commuter experience is a positive. Trees have been replanted and the stops have a fairly minimal intrusion into an otherwise grimey area. I work in the area, 9 de julio is an unpleasant car strewn mess with heavy air pollution and nothing but the obelisco to look at. All this talk of ruining the ambience is totally daft.

Theres is norhing aesthetic about the avenue due to the horrendous city planning of the past.

 

[sergio]

Napoleon, Your apology loses any real meaning when you qualify it and put the word "rude" in quotation marks. You were rude, simple as that. I was being sarcastic, of course, when I referred to the idea as "idiotic" but my use of the word was not directed at you or anyone on this board. You know very well that when the public discuss politicians' ideas they can be dramatic. My comment was a generic one but I probably shouldn't have used that word as it diminished a fair discussion of the issue. Maybe I am wrong and the bus lane is a good idea. I opened the discussion.

BA once had an extensive tram system. We now have only the "pre-Metro" which is a tram line by another name along with the tram that goes nowhere on Alem. The system should be expanded, something that is happening around the world especially in the US where there have been many "light rail" (trams) systems developed in recent years. 9 de julio seems a good place for such a line but maybe I am wrong and it would be too complicated.

I know that there is a subway below but the subway makes limited stops, so surface transport supplements underground traffic, especially in such a densely populated city.

Free transport is not a wild socialist idea. It's already heavily subsidized here as it is in the US (keep in mind that Senior Citizens, handicapped etc travel free there, paid for by taxpayers). Argentina is anything but a laissez faire economy, never has been. Free public hospitals and universities are popular forms of "socialism" that work relatively well here. I can't see removing them and I don't see any conflict with having them along with a more "business-friendly" government, i.e. one less punitive to small and medium businesses.

There is no reason why this forum can not adhere to basic rules of civility in posts.