Carne para todos! Seriously?

[jazrgz]

I'm not a CFK hater like many of the folks in this forum. In fact, I admire her speaking of "inclusión social," and I don't think it's some political game for her. In the United States, mentioning terms like "social inclusion" and "economic justice" equates you with Pol Pot.

As a gay man, her support for marriage equality was huge for me, and she allowed the law to go into effect in the face of huge opposition from the Catholic Church and many of the people who support her. The protests in Congreso against the law were (in my eyes) bigger than the protests against the retenciones in June/July 2008 and the state take-over of the AFJP later in the year.

With that said, I don't enjoy the paternalistic and antagonistic attitudes. If you're going to ask questions about the realities here, do so in a diplomatic way. Equating the Carne Para Todos trucks to "stinky soviet-era food trucks" is probably not going to elicit the best reaction. I mean, seriously.

The problems (regarding inflation) in Argentina are 1.) the power of the unions and 2.) the concentration of production into the hands of a few. Both of these problems are, in my opinion, the root of inflation. Hugo Moyano has more power than CFK. He'll get what he asks for because he could bring the country to a grinding halt whenever he feels like it. Furthermore, massive companies here produce most of the products you see in the grocery stores. And with imports shut down and ridiculous bureaucracy to get a company started here, they probably won't be seeing any competition anytime soon. Why increase supply when that will bring down the price, creating less earnings for the company? Why not just have the government come to you and agree to subsidize the price? Anyone know if CFK has any investment in Molinos?

Bradley, the gay marriage law was supported by almost all parties, including right wing, it was opposed by a very specific group, catholics...it is one great achievement and it was done under Cristina´s presidency..no one denies this and almost no one opposed it. nontheless, one right does not make up for hundreds of wrongs IMHO.
Regarding inlfation, you are right though :

1.) the power of the unions: This power is promoted and provided for by Kirchnerism...Moyano and kirchner (cristina) have always been partners in crime....Moyano should be in jail by now like so many others but they rest without any worries under the blanket of Kirchner judges....They both benefit from this situation....
2.) the concentration of production into the hands of a few. Same story here..these very selected few are partners with this govnmnt, the ones that refused to surrender to this regime were automatically "dismissed", the ones that signed in enjoy full control over the market they´re in...an example among many is a company that makes termos...Lumilagro, that makes crappy products and overpriced...though currently, is absolutaly the only termo available in the market...so you buy a lumilagro....or you buy a lumilagro :S
3) imports shut down and ridiculous bureaucracy to get a company started here : These some of the many actions these govrnmt took in order to ensure our economy is what it is !

Anywyas, this govrnmnt has very few rights, and even the ones that are totally against this regime acknoledge them....the problem is that for the most part, this govnmnt is full of wrongs... The huge inflation fabricated under this regime (which then they deny it exists) and then the "extremaly generaous" meat truck here and there are things, that as a local, are nothing more that an insult to us ! I will not treat this subject lightly or with respect....This govnmt should provide well paid jobs to ppl and make sure the economy is stable to things like huge inflation do not exist (just as it is in our neighboring countries were inflation is marely between 4 and 6 %)....

 

[sesamosinsal]

1.) the power of the unions: This power is promoted and provided for by Kirchnerism...Moyano and kirchner (cristina) have always been partners in crime....Moyano should be in jail by now like so many others but they rest without any worries under the blanket of Kirchner judges....They both benefit from this situation.

But does she have a choice? Could she even threaten to investigate him? Remember that when reports surfaced about Swiss authorities urging Argentina to investigate Moyano on money laundering, he declared a national strike, which was later rescinded. I'm for labor unions, but in Argentina their power is extreme. No president would last two seconds in this country if they didn't succumb to the union thuggery.

 

[fifs2]

But does she have a choice? Could she even threaten to investigate him? Remember that when reports surfaced about Swiss authorities urging Argentina to investigate Moyano on money laundering, he declared a national strike, which was later rescinded. I'm for labor unions, but in Argentina their power is extreme. No president would last two seconds in this country if they didn't succumb to the union thuggery.

So surviving your mandate at the mercy of the unions is preferable to having the balls to take them on if theyre contributing the economic fragility of the country by demanding ludicrous wage hikes and creaming off a fortune in medical plan payments? Arthur Scargill..? Sweden is a good example of how employer and employee unions can coexist for the benefit of both sides..the immaturity and thugery of unions and the presidency here show that theres some 100 or so years of mental evolution to take place here before theres any hope of such in Argentina.

 

[bebero]

by demanding ludicrous wage hikes?

i'd rather say "fair" and not "ludicrous".

 

[sesamosinsal]

So surviving your mandate at the mercy of the unions is preferable to having the balls to take them on if theyre contributing the economic fragility of the country by demanding ludicrous wage hikes and creaming off a fortune in medical plan payments? Arthur Scargill..? Sweden is a good example of how employer and employee unions can coexist for the benefit of both sides..the immaturity and thugery of unions and the presidency here show that theres some 100 or so years of mental evolution to take place here before theres any hope of such in Argentina.

How would you "take them on?" Precisely, what would you do?

 

[Ashley]

i'd rather say "fair" and not "ludicrous".

I think this depends what perspective you look at it from. They're fair in the sense that they prevent those union protected workers from losing value in their salaries due to inflation. They're ludicrous because
a) They enable a small portion of union-protected workers to do OK while the rest of Argentine workers suffer
b) They keep inflation up. The government maybe doesn't feel so urgently pressured to do anything, knowing that at least union protected workers aren't feeling the sting of inflation so much (and helps them to ignore the rest of us!)
c) These massive wage increases are probably causing some companies to drive their prices up, thus probably contributing to inflation...

If the wage increases were across the board, maybe that'd be more "fair", but we're living in a country where there's absolutely no coherence in how much wages someone makes. A basic secretary-type position that requires little experience and education in one industry can pay pretty well, while at the same time some doctors and highly skilled workers/professionals are only able to command a pittance for their labour.

 

[Lucas]

Inflation is one of the main causes of inequality....I agree with you though, to this govnmt, is far from a priority (well, they are responsible for it, so of course they wont try to fix it). Only priority is how to get more money from the ppl..so inflation will stay where it is for the next 4 years at least

So, it has been stablished that after almost a decade of kirchnerismo there´s no such thing as equality and aspiration fulfillment. Once again i agree with you...i guess we can start thinking about crime rates dropping after kirchnerism is gone...whenever that may be :S

yet again, completaly agree with you ! im sure you agree with me that the crop of corrupted judges, for the most part are on Cristinas payroll (dont want to name names "OYARBIDE among many many others" )

I will need to remind you (you can youtube it if you want) that your precious emperor gave a very touching speach on TV about how menem was the greatest president in our history (kinna lika kircherisas now say nestor was :S ) and how priviledged he felt of being his follower !!
I will also like to reming you that currently, on La Rioja province, Cristing and Menm are on a same vallot, them two beautifull faces showing side by side and last but not least.....Crisitna just provided some of that "uncorropted justice" letting him walk free of the weapong dealing charge he had and was absolutaly guilty of !!!
You mention several times that more time is needed, that things cannot get done overnight ! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!?? 8 years and half in power...literally in power, with full control of the congress and the judicual system......NOTHING has been done (for the ppl that is)...there´s no infrastructure at all, we pretty much have the same we had back in the 90´s......back then, and before that meat was completaly accessible to absolutaly everyone ! including poor ppl, all had access to it......This huge prices and meat and pretty much everything else are a direct result of this very corrupted govnmnt..... So, after 8 1/2 years nothign has been done yet they claim they need more....how much more time do you guys need ??? perhaps 50 years ?? how long will it take kirchnerism to actually do something to improve our quality of life ??? are they ever going to start ?? (and trucks of low cost meat believe me...are not a start...is just a bad to joke and an insult ! )

Shame on kirchneristas...i was around during the 90´s and it was the exactly same thing...everyone was menemista...now, no one is.....Today, everyone is kirchnerista like yourself.....same ole´story in this poor country....Same crappy corrupted politicians converted into gods getting filthy rich and bringing down the country and its ppl.....

Well, we agree to totally disagree on all that, never ever was this country so full of hope and so many opportunities were on table, or we, you and me and other have forgotten already the recent past?, not me, I still remember for sure, but it seem you don't. Things are so good in projection towards the future that nothing could compare as what happened in recent times, nothing good did happen here in the last 50 years it was like a Franco's Spain, a total regression for a country, a backwards step, an epic failure.

This country is just starting to change in the last 8 years is possible to see what as been accomplished and only the remaining dinosaurs of our dark years could be supporting your distorted point of view, in the past and in the present they were and are the ones who still dreaming of a pro-military junta ruling this country they are sympathizers of Coup d'état type governments, the pro dictators, the pro neo-liberals who sold out this country out can only have that twisted vision of this country future and not the one we are living in today, those kind of people are beyond our backs they are off and out and only supported and feed by that unreal virtual vision painted by the media that still support the oligarchy as always did, the same ones who backed those antisocial programs, dictatorships of the past and with that the downfall and shame of this nation.

Now we are living a new dawn in this country and we are not submerged in these darken days of a sad and bygone era as you are suggesting we should come back. Thanks God for not allowing that, thanks God for freeing this country from those people, thanks god for not having the majority of people thinking the way you do, thanks God for having Christina, thanks God for all that....

...and lastly please don't call me kichernista, because I'm not, I'm a simple citizen who only wants to see fairness for all and not only for a few, if I can see that I could be anything, be Alfonsinista, Macrista or Menemista but I need to see it with my own eyes to believe it, as I do now. To many pies in the sky in the past to believe all these corrupted politicians say, so now if I don't see it backed with facts I won't believe it..

 

[dennisr]

http://negocios.iprofesional.com/no...-todos-en-ms-de-160-puntos-de-venta-en-el-pas

http://translate.google.com/transla...ayout=2&eotf=1&u=http://www.iprofesional.com/

 

[JWB]

Well, we agree to totally disagree on all that, never ever was this country so full of hope and so many opportunities were on table, or we, you and me and other have forgotten already the recent past?, not me, I still remember for sure, but it seem you don't. Things are so good in projection towards the future that nothing could compare as what happened in recent times, nothing good did happen here in the last 50 years it was like a Franco's Spain, a total regression for a country, a backwards step, an epic failure.

This country is just starting to change in the last 8 years is possible to see what as been accomplished and only the remaining dinosaurs of our dark years could be supporting your distorted point of view, in the past and in the present they were and are the ones who still dreaming of a pro-military junta ruling this country they are sympathizers of Coup d'état type governments, the pro dictators, the pro neo-liberals who sold out this country out can only have that twisted vision of this country future and not the one we are living in today, those kind of people are beyond our backs they are off and out and only supported and feed by that unreal virtual vision painted by the media that still support the oligarchy as always did, the same ones who backed those antisocial programs, dictatorships of the past and with that the downfall and shame of this nation.

Now we are living a new dawn in this country and we are not submerged in these darken days of a sad and bygone era as you are suggesting we should come back. Thanks God for not allowing that, thanks God for freeing this country from those people, thanks god for not having the majority of people thinking the way you do, thanks God for having Christina, thanks God for all that....

...and lastly please don't call me kichernista, because I'm not, I'm a simple citizen who only wants to see fairness for all and not only for a few, if I can see that I could be anything, be Alfonsinista, Macrista or Menemista but I need to see it with my own eyes to believe it, as I do now. To many pies in the sky in the past to believe all these corrupted politicians say, so now if I don't see it backed with facts I won't believe it..

WHAT COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE IN? Are you so incredibly blind or do you just choose to ignore the obvious??

And you are not a K?? LMFAO!

 

[PhilipDT]

http://negocios.iprofesional.com/no...-todos-en-ms-de-160-puntos-de-venta-en-el-pas

http://translate.google.com/transla...ayout=2&eotf=1&u=http://www.iprofesional.com/

What? Is that a joke?