Cat calling

[HowardinBA]

Huh??????????????? I don´t get enough cat calls? Yes, exactly Jared...I´m a very bitter woman because I don´t get harrased enough....geez you men really don´t need any help looking like idiots.

maybe you could re-write your comments Kelly,after thinking about them

 

[AnalogDreamer]

maybe you could re-write your comments Kelly,after thinking about them

I think you are stereotyping Kelly as a bitter, feminist, doesn't get enough (heterosexual)sex. That's not good. She's entitled to her opinion, and while i think the analogy with FGM is a bit extreme, I think sometimes it feels invasive to have drooling guys putting so much attention to your body and letting you know about it, wether you want to know or not.
I get "cat called" sometimes. I look at people. Sometimes I have kinky toughts about them. But I wouldn't voice them in an intrusive, explicit manner unless I get a clue thta the other person may feel comfortable with that, YKWIM?

Yes it is in the culture, in Mexico is like that too, maybe a bit more grotesque, but as thinking beings, we can question culture too.

RE: Naty Pomelos
Don't believe that because that was accepted in your job, every girl likes that treatment. I wouldn't accept it.

 

[Stiletto]

Get any heterosexual group of guys of different languages/races/ethnic backgrounds show them a set of beautiful ladies and Voila! They will magically understand each other. They will say everything they want amongst them, but on some culture men are taught to be more reserved.

If you notice most cat-calling is done by men accompanied by other men, they feel more confident and anonymous within a group, so they may say all they want but they wont go further than that because they don't expect you to respond to it,or respond positively. Its more like them teasing and being a##holes in group to feel mighty.

All men respond to pretty girls, its just that in some countries cat-calling and all of these things are considered sexual harassment while in South America its not that bad,so they are more open when expressing it, but here and in China a guy will at least sneak looks at you if he finds you pretty.

I remember I was once on a plane, sitting next to 3 Argentinian guys in their 40 -50s,they were talking to this girl from another country who was also n the plane and the girl seemed very flirty, the guys were VERY loud commenting on her big breasts that I'm sure she heard it, but she kept even flirting even more, gave them her phone and bla bla...needless to say, nothing goes further if you don't allow it.

 

[Stiletto]

I don´t really think that men should react on this subject because they really have no idea what it feels like to be a woman and want to walk down the street without having comments thrown at you with those disgusting up and down undressing-with-my-eyes looks.

All women react differently to this apparently "culturally-accepted" behavoir, some find it um...flattering. Personally, I don´t like be treated like a piece of meat and quite enjoy be able to feel COMFORTABLE in my body and my clothing, which apparently is something that men here don´t want you to feel.

It´s as though they want to remind you every second of the day, no matter where you are, who you are with or what you are wearing that THEY only see your oh-so pretty eyes or gigantic breasts.

Actually, I feel bad for men...they are obliviously rather weak if they can´t keep their minds out of the gutter when a woman crosses their path.

Oh by the way, the men on this forum should really watch how they treat women as well.....I´ve unfortunately seen a lot of harrasing comments.
Gross.

Just a last thought-- it´s rather silly, if you think about it, to justify this behavoir and treatment towards women with the comment "It´s just how the culture is"....Do you justify female circumsion with that comment? Or mass-genocide? Or polluting of lakes and rivers?

Woman are treated like a piece of meat here and in the rest of the world, sadly. We could blame mass media, history, culture... but most likely it wont change before we die, so we just have to figure out a way around it.

You yourself know you have more much to offer than pretty eyes, boobs and so on, but hey if they don't see further than that don't waste your time with ppl like that, needless to say not all Argentines are like that.

I do notice that Argentines sometimes tend to speak to woman as they would sometimes speak to a guy. Including curse words and so on, it seems pretty common for a guy to curse at his gf and in return she would curse back at him even harder, or for a guy to curse at his own mother. I still find this hard to swallow. On Colombia for example, there is also cat calling at some places, but men don't even dare curse out at woman [except probably in slums] as it is very discouraged and thought to be extremely rude they may think it but dont say it, and of course it is extremely rare to curse at your own mother as it is seen as really wrong, but here I see it quite often.

Please dont take anything personal kelly, not even cat calling, we cant really change it, so imo just ignore it..if you let it affect you..you are giving them that pleasure.

 

[KatharineAnn]

I´m surprised by the lack of feminism in this thread, and am really disappointed by the insults thrown at kelly just for saying she doesn´t like catcalling and finds it offensive and invasive. It is very invasive, and you may like it or not, but its not fair to say ´just move´ if you don´t like it. I rather hate it but I´m not going to give up the rest of my life here because some assholes cannot respect a lady as a person. I try to ignore it, and manage to do so most of the time with headphones and music haha, but of course I´d rather not have to try to ignore the daily onslaught of what I consider attacks on my self-respect.

While true that many piropos are just ´ay que linda´ or ´ay que divina´, I have heard some truly offensive ones that have really put a damper on my day. I am not a hooker, I do not dress like one, so why do these men think they have the right to treat me like they saw me dancing on the pole at their local strip club? It also seems like the simple act of wearing a skirt to these men is justification in itself for them to harass you further. You must be asking for it, right, showing those legs like that...

It´s also important to consider that women in Argentina are often extremely sexist themselves. It´s easy to blame men for sexism but women are those who really perpetuate sexism, and they do this by accepting it and internalizing it. Most Argentine women I know openly accept that it is far more important to stay slim by eating very little than to satisfy one´s basic dietary needs, or even just to enjoy food in the way men are allowed to. They also value their worth as a person very much on their looks, and the catcalls are perhaps a gauge of their worth. This is why there are so many 50 plus plastic surgery disasters walking about, they cannot accept not being hot young chicks anymore, because that would mean they have lost all of their womanly value! I have had female doctors here who are ridiculously caked in makeup, sport weaves or weave-like hairdos, and cleavage! Professional much??

It´s true that this happens everywhere, but I would love to see women here just relax a bit more and value themselves for their actions, friends, loved ones, hobbies, personalities, more than their firm butt or flat tummy....or be able to go out for beer and pizza with friends just like men do without worrying about their panzas! Truly I don´t think Argentine women do much to stop sexism and probably make it continue as much as men, simply by not demanding the same respect that men are given.

Like anyone else I love a good compliment, but not when it is an assembly-line compliment handed out to every woman under 50 who walks by one´s path. It feels dehumanizing and it is not sincere - I am not so stupid as to think you really think my eyes, breasts, or legs are truly that special, but rather know simply that these are my most valuable assets in your eyes. And that´s something that really needs to change IMHO.

 

[fifs2]

While true that many piropos are just ´ay que linda´ or ´ay que divina´, I have heard some truly offensive ones that have really put a damper on my day. I am not a hooker, I do not dress like one, so why do these men think they have the right to treat me like they saw me dancing on the pole at their local strip club? It also seems like the simple act of wearing a skirt to these men is justification in itself for them to harass you further. You must be asking for it, right, showing those legs like that...

It´s also important to consider that women in Argentina are often extremely sexist themselves. It´s easy to blame men for sexism but women are those who really perpetuate sexism, and they do this by accepting it and internalizing it. Most Argentine women I know openly accept that it is far more important to stay slim by eating very little than to satisfy one´s basic dietary needs, or even just to enjoy food in the way men are allowed to. They also value their worth as a person very much on their looks, and the catcalls are perhaps a gauge of their worth. This is why there are so many 50 plus plastic surgery disasters walking about, they cannot accept not being hot young chicks anymore, because that would mean they have lost all of their womanly value! I have had female doctors here who are ridiculously caked in makeup, sport weaves or weave-like hairdos, and cleavage! Professional much??

It´s true that this happens everywhere, but I would love to see women here just relax a bit more and value themselves for their actions, friends, loved ones, hobbies, personalities, more than their firm butt or flat tummy....or be able to go out for beer and pizza with friends just like men do without worrying about their panzas! Truly I don´t think Argentine women do much to stop sexism and probably make it continue as much as men, simply by not demanding the same respect that men are given.

Like anyone else I love a good compliment, but not when it is an assembly-line compliment handed out to every woman under 50 who walks by one´s path. It feels dehumanizing and it is not sincere - I am not so stupid as to think you really think my eyes, breasts, or legs are truly that special, but rather know simply that these are my most valuable assets in your eyes. And that´s something that really needs to change IMHO.[/quote]


KatherineAnne you beautifully summed up all my feelings with this post. I especially feel really uncomfortable being eyed up like a piece of meat and receiving god knows what comments when I am out walking with my 2 kids , one of whom is 7 and is very aware of what is happening around him. Appraising looks and the odd subtle compliment is lovely but the aggression that some men display in groups is a tad animalistic and base for 9am in the morning and says more about their own insecurities than it does about my stunning beauty! Also agree how sad it is to see beautiful Argentine girls need to act and prance down the streets like sad hookers desperate to get attention - flicking their hair and looking around nervously for a man to eye them up and make them feel they have worth -or worse desperate for another woman to give the jealous evil eye which also seems to be the female norm as a way of feeling good about yourself here...most days it does make for hilarious living but I agree with the original OP that no man is really qualified to comment on this type of behavior and less decry it as harassment unless you have lived with it....and suggesting moving for a dislike of such is as insulting as telling DavidGlenn to move because he doesnt like being conned by the local mafia.

 

[citygirl]

I can't say it really bothers me - shrug. I get a lot of comments, from the flattering to the lewd but honestly, it's become background noise to me. I rarely pay attention to it. I think the fact that it is 99% verbal here makes it easier for me to ignore.

It was really bizarre for me to witness the interactions in the offices here and as David said, the absolute lack of political correctness shocked (continues to shock) me. In the workplace, as a boss, I have a zero tolerance policy for my employees.

I think what I have found more difficult than anything is the fact that if I'm with an Argentine man and another man looks at me the "wrong" way - there is always a good chance the situation is going to escalate and at the least, words will be exchanged. That I don't like.

 

[muppditt]

I enjoy being appreciated for my appearance. A lot of the ladies here seem to have issues with bodies and with sexual feelings as being 'disgusting.' Jeez, thinking a female doctor is unprofessional because she is sexy? Why are those mutually exclusive. Get a grip. Old school feminism going on here, which actually sounds a lot like veiled Puritanism. Have fun in your Crocs and Snuggie.

Anyhow, the 'piropos' are harmless and for me can add something nice to sometimes bland days.

I really don't think that the guys who make cat calls are 'animals' or 'always have their minds in the gutter.' I see it as a way to release stress (for both sides) or boredom in an otherwise routine day (workday for example), and if you just chill out a little bit and say 'Gracias' or smile, or even laugh, as I have done...that's it. You just walk on and a guy is looking at your ass.

Everyone does it. I look at guy's asses and bulges in their pants all the time. Why do we have to pretend we don't notice the sexiness of a stranger? Why is that disrespectful?

I prefer the sexual dynamic here to lonely cold 'I don't want to disrespect women by looking at them so nobody ever acknowledges anyone' wussies in Berlin.

And even though that one poster's comment about female circumcision was totally irrelevant, you want to talk about an injustice? The systematic circumcision of all boys in many countries...there is hardly a peep about that.

 

[muppditt]

Also, one thing: NOT ONE of my male friends has EVER been approached and complimented on the street, nor received a cat call from a woman (gay guys yes haha). And quite a few are very hot guys! They all say that they wish it would happen JUST ONCE.
I would feel sad if not one man had ever complimented me or made a cat call to me on the street.

 

[PhilipDT]

My .02 It doesn't bother me since I'm a guy but it just seems kind of classless.