Catcalling Fines

[camberiu]

It's just that there aren't such black and white distinctions between the two.

Of course there is: One is consensual the other isn't. To me that is as black and white as it gets.

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]That said, I agree (I think we agree) that cat calling is more of a social issue than a government issue. [/background]

Yep. Shun and shame the catcaller all you like. A society has full right to do that. Put to respond to an act of self exp<b></b>ression, no matter how despicable, with violence, to me that is unacceptable.

 

[sleslie23]

Of course there is: One is consensual the other isn't. To me that is as black and white as it gets.

Again, that makes sense if you see things in purely binary terms. Few things, especially those involving human behavior, are in reality that way.

Yep. Shun and shame the catcaller all you like. A society has full right to do that. Put to respond to an act of self exp<b></b>ression, no matter how despicable, with violence, to me that is unacceptable.

And again, when you phrase things with such clearly defined distinctions, problematic cases arise. At what point does my "freedom of exp<b></b>ression" end and your individual right to not be harassed begin? What if I follow you to your door calling you names? I haven't assaulted you. If I stood outside your house, yet on public property, what would you do? What should society do? What should the state do?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Again, that makes sense if you see things in purely binary terms. Few things, especially those involving human behavior, are in reality that way.




And again, when you phrase things with such clearly defined distinctions, problematic cases arise. At what point does my "freedom of exp<b></b>ression" end and your individual right to not be harassed begin? What if I follow you to your door calling you names? I haven't assaulted you. If I stood outside your house, yet on public property, what would you do? What should society do? What should the state do?

You might also ask whether the state is part of society, or not?

 

[nativexpat]

Who cares about fines, if no one pays for them and/or you can reach an agreement with a juez de faltas... You can pass a thousand laws, but it won't matter if they will never be enforced.

There's a school mom who has been double parking for 6 years at the school door, on an avenue and next to a bus stop (like she cannot drive around and find a spot 2 blocks away). Last year she was COMPLAINING that she had to pay a lot in fines, and that she haggled with the juez de faltas until she got 50%off (wtf!). Now she just keeps parking with her license plate covered. These kind of people are the reason why we will never ever ever get out of this hole.

Me pone locaaaaa!!!!!

 

[gpop]

Many laws have been made, and not enforced... this is the way it is here.
This type of thing would never go anywhere... to have any kind of real impact on the cat-calling, you'd have to sick the mother of the offender on the offender. The men here are really a bunch of mamas-boys.

 

[Rich One]

Guess the amount of the fine will depend on how crude the call was?? The judge will decide on the amount, a woman judge may be more severe. Compliments will not be fined???

Ms. Donada diputada

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Guess the amount of the fine will depend on how crude the call was?? The judge will decide on the amount, a woman judge may be more severe. Compliments will not be fined???

Ms. Donada diputada

Given the precedents of traffic and parking enforcement in Argentina, I'm not sanguine that anti-catcalling measures will be at all effective. ¿Coimas para todos?

 

[camberiu]

I haven't assaulted you. If I stood outside your house, yet on public property, what would you do? What should society do? What should the state do?

We have this thing called a court system, where you can file a civil law suite and express your grievances to an impartial listener, and a judge (and/or jury) will decide if your claims of injury (emotional or otherwise) have merit.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

We have this thing called a court system, where you can file a civil law suite and express your grievances to an impartial listener, and a judge (and/or jury) will decide if your claims of injury (emotional or otherwise) have merit.

So, you resort to the power of the state when it suits you. How libertarian can you get?

 

[sleslie23]

We have this thing called a court system, where you can file a civil law suite and express your grievances to an impartial listener, and a judge (and/or jury) will decide if your claims of injury (emotional or otherwise) have merit.

So, the state is responsible for mediating between two individuals on matters of free speech? You can't say you don't consent to living in a state then appeal to the state to mediate your dispute.

But beyond the lack of logic in your response, I am genuinely curious as to where you feel the distinction lies between my freedom of speech and your right to not be harassed.