Change in expat attitudes?

fifs2 said:
Jared, I dont want to start an anti-mormon war as Ive still many friends there BUT jack mormons and non mormons who arent US citizens are frequently discriminated against in Provo, SLC and other cities...I can post details if you like or you can pretend you`re all lovely tolerant people who never discriminate but its all fantasy in terms of non-discrimination unfortunately.

Ok, but make sure to point out all the details of discrimination by catholics, protestants, baptists, and muslim. I guarantee there would be a lot more examples than you could find on us Mormons.

The fact that she brought up Mormonism as one of the possible reasons she was let go was completely baseless and I was simply pointing out the fact that it was unnecessary to bring that up.

I didn't say that all mormons were perfect. I grew up in Salt Lake and saw first hand the shit non-mormons got from some of the religious extremists within the faith. However, I highly, highly doubt that had anything to do with her being let go.
 
steveinbsas said:
I wonder what the whining you refer to is all about. I also wonder if it's all whining.

Was Davidglenn whining when he told us the story about having his business shut down (illegally) just before Xmas or was he relating his experience so that others might think twice before starting a business here?

Was I whining when I told the story of the airport vet extorting $100 USD to "allow" me to bring my dog into the country or just relating my experience so others would know how to avoid what happened to me? (Same goes for all who had to pay bribes at customs to get their household goods into Argentina "duty free" while living here as temporary residents.)

Was anyone who ever related stories of being robbed, ripped off by a dishonest landlord, or dating an Argentine whining or just trying to help others who might fall victim to these predators?

The longer you live here the more you know about the good, the bad, and the ugly aspects of BA and the more you have to share with as well as warn fellow and wannabe expats about.

I do agree that BA is vastly preferable to London. I spent a total of four years in BA and only a week in London. It took four years for BA to lose it's charm (for me), even though it is still full of beautiful women who are beautifully dressed and have lovely accents when they speak English...

What bothers me is the lack of balance. And the weird importance people put on trivial things. I've spent a month or two a year here for the last 13 years and have been here permanently for the last 18 months. I still love the people, seem to manage to reconcile problems pretty quickly and if I can't, I send my taxi driver who normally can! Sure there is crime, but a lot less than many cities in the UK, US and forget Africa or some of the more exotic locations you might fancy. But the trivial themes keep coming up;

Food. Yes, restaurants have a limited reportoire, but because food distribution is not very sophisticated the ingredients you buy are normally fresh, delicious and ready for the pan. You only need to be able to cook to eat fantastically here. Since when was it a right to eat in a restaurant every night?

Peanut butter - who cares?

Dog shit. Evidence that there are lots of dogs here. I like dogs.

People. I can't remember anyone being rude to me here...ever! Service may be a bit slow but it is never a problem to hurry it up. Hold the waitresses hand while you explain why you are in a hurry and I guarantee she will do her upmost to get you out of there ASAP!

Bribery. You don't get stopped by the cops here any more often than in the UK. What do you prefer to do? Pay the fine or contribute a percentage to the "pension fund"?

Weather. Apart from January, perfect, especially at 2.00 a.m.

Opening hours. Ideal. you can enjoy a coffee and the weather at 2.00 a.m with no risk of having to hurry.

Taxi drivers. Lots of them, efficient and predominantly honest and friendly. The odd fake 50 is obviously just designed to remind you you need to cut down on your drinking. Difficult when the weather is so delightful and you fancy another scotch with your coffee at 2.00 a.m.

Traffic. You can still get across BA at 5 times the speed of London and at least twice the speed of NY. And the drivers all know where they are going.

Property. A quarter of the price of London.

Casual Violence. An enormous theme in the UK where people get drunk and like to fight. Happens very rarely here and when it does they are laughably bad at the actual fighting bit, normally because it takes a lot of drink to make them agressive.

Driving. Scary but not boring.

Shopping - who cares. No one even expects you to shave before a business meeting let alone to dress up. Your smart new jacket may fall apart more rapidly but then you don't have to wear it often.

Horses - excellent

Pavements - shit if you are handicapped, intimidating if you have to wear high heels but hell, this is the 3rd world.

To sum up, living in a country and refusing to play the game is like smacking your head against a wall. If you have a business, you are going to have to pay bribes if you want to avoid hassle. The question is how do you ensure that they don't escalate and that other people don't muscle in. If you don't accept this, become a citizen and go into politics. I'm sure a credible anti corruption campaign would garner a lot of votes! Who's got the balls?

And just to be clear, the one part of government that really works here is the ministry of culture. I've never been anywhere where there is so much to do, the quality of the events is so high, the events are so inclusive (mainly free) and cover such a wide range of activities.

Does it for me!

I write this solely in the interest of balance as, if I wasn't already here, many of the comments on this site would give me a very unrealistic and depressing idea of this great city.
 
all true,Miles..
Love it..
You forgot to mention one thing though,If someone hates it that much...leave..
With all the bitching about prices/inflation/lack of menus etc...you'd swear people were making you stay.....if you dont like it ...Leave.. Personally I did!!!! I fell in and out of love with BA. I realized I can only handle it for short times, and I cant wait to go back again..
 
sergio said:
This friend, like many Argentines, thinks foreigners should not have the right to express critical views, no matter how deeply they are committed/involved in the country.

Though to be fair I should say that many (US) Americans have the same attitude to migrant foreigners criticising the USA ("If you don't like it here, why do you stay here?").
 
Ive found most comments really constructive. However, some stereotypical comments are a bit out of line. I mean , "porteños are all rude" (or something of the sort Ive read). I ve seen at least two to three phrases like that.
You should at least give some concrete example regarding that, as I could also bring in some stereotypical phrases such as "War is the Us means of economical support" . Whether I believe in that or not , I am aware that you can find all sorts of people that share or not that view. Again, as someone said before, life does not end in Recoleta or Palermo.
 
keech said:
all true,Miles..
Love it..
You forgot to mention one thing though,If someone hates it that much...leave..
With all the bitching about prices/inflation/lack of menus etc...you'd swear people were making you stay.....if you dont like it ...Leave.. Personally I did!!!! I fell in and out of love with BA. I realized I can only handle it for short times, and I cant wait to go back again..

Nice that you are honest about it. There seems to be almost a sense of shame about saying "it isn't for me" and a strange need to justify this. Sure there are some people who are unwillingly tied to staying here but for the vast majority just saying "this doesn't suit me, I'm off to get mugged somewhere else or live in a closely guarded compound," should do the trick.
 
CDNinBA said:
#1 - it's taught me patience. When i first got here, trying to walk down Santa Fe in front of Alto Palermo was enough to give me major sidewalk rage.

Sidewalk rage? That's great... can I steal that term? I complain every day when I am walking with two huge bags and the people walking the opposite direction do not move at all. Portenos do not yield at all in the sidewalk, they pay no attention to people around them. I was in Manhattan recently with more crowded sidewalks and I didn't have this problem... so I experience sidewalk rage daily here!
 
Lee said:
Whenever I am in a good mood I try NOT to ride the subte...I mean...have you looked at the people's faces on the subte...I mean really looked? I have not seen a more depressed looking group in my life!

Oh...I have been here 4 years and used the subte 1000's of times and it's always the same.

You should've been here in 2001 if you wanted to see some seriously gloomy faces... But I've travelled in many subways around the world and nobody looked like they were having the time of their lives anyway. I call it the "underground mood".
 
citygirl said:
This is also spot on. I speak Spanish although certainly with my distinctive gringa accent ;). When I moved here, I didn't speak a word and it certainly played a huge factor in making it hard to be here. Things that are difficult even if you're fluent (sorting out bills, trying to arrange appts and doing tramites) became almost impossible. And it was depressing. And yes, my brain HURT when I came home. I still have trouble when I'm in a large group of Argentines that are all speaking super quickly and shouting over one another (so in other words, at every asado;)) and it definitely adds to the isolation factor.

I've always told friends that the feeling of being in an unknown city without a grasp of the language can't be described. It's not a headache...it just hurts. You come home exhausted, without any reason to be. It's a mental exhaustion that has to be experienced.

And even more frustratingly, I've found the feeling doesn't go away immediately as you learn more. Your brain starts to realize it knows what it's hearing, but you still can't quite comprehend it quick enough to escape the blank stare you give the person trying to talk to you.

But one day, it finally does get better, the fog lifts a bit, and you smile. And then the next day is depressing again. ;p
 
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