Change in expat attitudes?

I have been here about 4 years and I don’t think my attitude has changed. I, along with my Argentine wife and our 2 young sons, one born in the States and one born here, live about 50 km outside of the city. I drive into the microcentro everyday and my wife drives into Palermo for her job 4 days a week. So I understand that we might be in a different situation than many of the participants on this Forum. We have never been robbed or threatened, but we know it happens often, so we take precautions.

There are certainly things that frustrate me and things I dislike about the culture here;

Driving (I do a lot) can be a little bit dangerous, daunting and frustrating. I think Argentines are extremely friendly (see below) but act ignorant and arrogant behind the wheel. Ignorant-they are not aware of the laws (which of course are often not enforced) and they are not aware of the inherent dangerous of driving automobiles. Arrogant-they think nothing is going to happen to them and they believe it is their right to put their car absolutely wherever they want; parking in front of the sidewalk ramp at the mall so you can’t push a baby stroller up, or putting their car 50cm behind yours, going 130 km/hour.

Constantly changing rules, regulations and laws make life tough.

Corruption and tax evasion, simply a way of life.

Banking System-Wow the 1.2% check tax; unbelievable. This means that for any business account (checking or savings) the government takes 0.6% of EVERY deposit (electronic, check or cash) and the government takes 0.6% of EVERY withdrawal (electronic, check or cash). Where does it go?????

But for me, the absolute worst part is the attitude of the Argentines. I know and interact with a lot of Argentines and nearly every single one (actually the word nearly is just a disclaimer, I believe it is EVERY ONE) from the taxicab drivers to the parking lot attendants to construction workers, agricultural workers, small business owners, lawyers, accountants, escribanos, successful business people, physicians, university scientists, professors, etc.) ALL of them say the same thing “I know there are many other places in the world where things run better and more efficiently and life is not a constant fight, but we can’t do that here…because we’re Argentine”. That my Forum friends is a fundamental cultural difference between Argentina and where I grew up. I want to clarify, this is not a socio-economic thing were the poor and impoverished feel there is no opportunity to improve themselves and the Country, this is across the board. I don’t want my sons to think or say that.

Now for the good stuff.

When we built our house in 2007-08, it was still much cheaper than construction costs in the States.

Beef and wine are still relatively cheap, although unfortunately the quality of the beef is declining and the price is increasing (in my opinion due to poor agricultural policies by our President).

I like how they bring you a few peanuts and some chips when you order a beer, or sweets when you order a coffee.

Obviously there is a ton of cultural and other things to do in this city and surrounding area.

Full service gas stations

Family is super important here, that is nice.

Kids are important here, that is great.

I find Argentines, when they are not behind the wheel, to be extremely friendly and genuinely interested in why we moved here and particularly if I have adjusted and what I think about this Country and the people. But the conversation invariably leads to “…but we’re Argentine…”

But for me personally, the best thing about Argentina: cheap polo!
 
jenh said:
Anecdotally, I have heard more expats and locals alike actually make plans for (rather than just talk about) leaving in the past 6 to 8 weeks. It is hard to put my finger on it, but there is generally less optimism around these days. I know a lot of expats who went home at Christmas and just decided to not come back, or to come back briefly and then move.

I had planned to come for three months, and was hoping at the end of it that I would like it enough to want to stay. But it's been over two months now that I've been living in Buenos Aires, and I'll be ready to go when the time comes.

I'm from Vancouver, Canada, and I consider it one of the most costly places to live in the world. I've visited Tokyo and New York City in the last five years, and I thought both of those cities were cheaper than Vancouver. Buenos Aires is obviously cheaper than Vancouver, but I agree with some of the sentiments, even for what you pay the quality is lacking often, especially with regards to food. I went out for a nice steak dinner and the final bill was about 90 pesos here (around $23 CAD). Back home that same meal would probably be around $28 CAD or so. Definitely a savings, but in many places I've been I've felt like it's a near wash in terms or price. Other than quilmes most pubs have had beer for 20 pesos or so, and that's $5 CAD back home, which is on par with a lot of pubs.

The city here is a lot dirtier than I expected as well. I'm getting used to it, but it still amazes me when I see a person simply chuck drop garbage on the ground and keep walking. The architecture is gorgeous, I just find it a bit sad that the city is now covered in trash and graffiti everywhere. I visited Puerto Iguazu a few weekends ago, and Montevideo in my first month, and both cities seemed a lot cleaner by comparison with far less bars on the windows.

I went for a walk in a park in Palermo the other day to clear my mind and to relax for a few minutes. I was thinking about my trip so far and how I was going to feel when I left. Right around that time an old lady walked by, stopped in front of a guy my age sleeping on a bench (with earbuds in his ear), and then proceeded to try and steal his iPod from his pocket. The guy shewed the old lady off, and she simply continued on the path.

While I haven't been a victim of crime here (truthfully I haven't had any issues regarding that), I met a guy from Montreal who has had three phones stolen, a friend of mine who had her backpack stolen (while in a library), an Irish guy who was stabbed in San Telmo, and another few friends (local) who had the contents of their pack emptied on the subte.

I've met great people, seen some great sites, and have enjoyed my trip thus far. But when my plane takes off in a few weeks I'll be looking forward to being somewhere else again when it touches down.
 
I guess I'm confused. There is no nice steak dinner in NY,SF, Chicago or any other major US or Canadian city I know for anywhere near $23. Twice that would be hard to find with a single glass of decent wine. I'd say what $23 buys at even La Cabrara would be over four times that in major North American cities.

Rent is also a fraction of the price in Baires vs those cities. My guess is Baires is about one- third of NYC or SF rents.

Yes beer may not be cheap in Palermo bars, but I just don't get some of these posts.
 
Well, I don't know where you eat. Vancouver has three semi famous steak houses that are well known, Morton's, Gotham and Chives I believe. At both Morton's at Gotham one can get a steak for $50. Do what you will with the wine.

And for $25 - $30 you can easily get a decent steak (comparable to anything I've eaten here, save one place) at The Keg, Cactus Club, Joey's or any of the typical chains there. A glass of wine will run you $6 - 8 for a typical house wine.

I can't comment on rent, I have a short term apartment which is targeted towards short term travellers, and it's no bargain.

I've had beer all over the city. Other than Quilmes I don't find it much of a deal. You do?
 
It is still an inexpensive city to live - as long as you earn in dollars. But really, that is true of many cities that are thought of as inexpensive by expat standards. What you cannot do anymore is live like a king for a pittance. I think that certainly dashes the dreams of many an expat.

I know a lot of expats here who are here for the lifestyle and the likeminds the city offers. They may not be lining up to defend their choice on these forums - bc they don't really use them anymore. Too busy socializing, going to concerts, festivals, weekend trips, etc - and tired of the same conversations and debates. Honestly, that is probably what I love most about living here: hanging out with so many people from around the world who are here bc they crave the challenge and adventure of NOT following the pattern of wherever they are from. Unlike many other cities, where most expats end up for work reasons, BA is a city people go to in order to pursue a lifestyle of life path.

It's definitely difficult and not necessarily sustainable for many/most past a few years, unless they are entrepreneurs in some capacity or entirely able to work remotely, but those who are leaving are doing so bc it's the 'responsible' thing to do, eventually, financially or career-path wise. Not bc they don't enjoy their lives here, but many can simply not obtain the work opportunities they can in other places. Fair enough.
 
RSPlayer said:
I have been here about 4 years and I don’t think my attitude has changed. I, along with my Argentine wife and our 2 young sons, one born in the States and one born here, live about 50 km outside of the city...

But for me personally, the best thing about Argentina: cheap polo!

Then tell me you went to Palermo on Saturday.

FREE Polo
FREE Stella... and the girls working the taps were amazing
FREE Borghetti (poor imitation Kahlua)... and the girl working the bottle had amazing eyes and her body was ridiculous
FREE Fernet & Coke... and the girls working the Fernet were doing their painted on white pants proud
FREE Freddo... though I didn't get any, so I can't tell you about the girls working the spoons
FREE Champagne... though it was Norton, so I didn't even consider getting any
FREE English Nostalgia as a couple of English friends went streaking across the concha... cancha while being chased by security (though I can't comment on their looks, because I wasn't there)

I often forget how many awesome things about this city and I'm starting to see the negative more than the positive. But when you have a FREE Polo Day like that and then...

I got to meet a girl who wanted to sell me a painting for a little dough on the side (or a favor to a friend), but she doesn't normally sell art. No, her occupation is:

"Lawyer / Makeup Artist"
I mean, HOW AWESOME IS THAT?!?!?!

I've heard of a "Model/Actress", but I've never before met a "Lawyer/Makeup Artist". In fact, she told me that she makes more money doing makeup.

LOVED IT!!

PS- I oppose lifting presidential term limits. Here or in any country.
 
Here's a review of Morton's, which puts the average dinner for two at US $170. Morton's, not The Keg, is the counterpart to top Baires steakhouses where the equilivent dinner would be about $50 with much better wine. You can get a Keg quality steak dinner for $8 all over the city.

http://dc.about.com/od/restaurantreviews/gr/MortonsReview.htm

I think many think Baires is cheap. It's not. But it's way cheaper than any North American city.
 
Montevideo cleaner????
Maybe, but this place changes a lot during the high season. In December they start to clean the city and the beaches.
And to compare the costs of living you should not only look at the food. In Europe and I guess in the US,too food in supermarkets is cheap and the quality is good. But in Europe people pay 50% of their income for taxes, about 15% for health insurance, about 400€ per months for using a car, 3,5€ for a 10 minutes trip by subte or bus....
I don´t want to go on with costs for education, TV, using highways...
 
Napoleon said:
Then tell me you went to Palermo on Saturday.

What I really meant was that to play polo in Argentina is “cheap”. No, unfortunately I did not go to Palermo last weekend. When you play Tuesday, Thursday evenings and Saturday, Sunday mornings, it’s a bit difficult to tell the family Saturday afternoon, “Hey I’d like to go to a polo match this afternoon”. Although, exceptions are made of course for the Open. However I am familiar with the “Chicas Stella”, they sponsor our tournaments.
 
"a nice steak dinner and the final bill was about 90 pesos here (around $23 CAD). Back home that same meal would probably be around $28 CAD or so"

The Vancouver steak must have been at Sizzlers. $28 CAD wouldn't pay for the tip and tax in a decent steak house in Vancouver BC. I'm from Seattle and have spent much time and money in Vancouver.
 
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