Citizenship

[Bajo_cero2]

Can someone receive citizenship even if they lose residency during the citizenship process? Pretend at year #2 they meet all requirements and file the court case. The court case is taking 1-2 years, so after 6 months they leave Argentina for whatever personal reason (stopping residency). Does that then become a reason the judge can deny them or is the only thing that matter that at the point of application they met the requirements?

To me if a case takes 3-4 years due to court process yet the judge can use the discontinuation of residency at year 2.5 as a reason to deny citizenship, then it is a denial of rights of the individual. Ultimately, if the court process means the entire process requires 3 or 4 years and the judge denies cases because a person left at year 2.5, then the judge has ultimately rewritten the constitution. De facto a 2 year requirement has turned into a 3-4 year requirement. They could theoretically extend the court process to 10 years and make the de factor time required 10 years. Thus the intent of the law has been overruled.

You do not need legal residency for getting citizenship. The citizenship is based on moving to Argentina (domicile) while legal residency is based on ius sanguinos (race).
Cases takes normally 18 months.

 

[FallenAngel]

You do not need legal residency for getting citizenship. The citizenship is based on moving to Argentina (domicile) while legal residency is based on ius sanguinos (race).
Cases takes normally 18 months.

I mean what happens if residency discontinues during the 18 month period the case takes. For example, reside in Argentina 2 years and apply for citizenship. After 6 months during the process of the case move to another country. Will that become grounds for losing the case?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I mean what happens if residency discontinues during the 18 month period the case takes. For example, reside in Argentina 2 years and apply for citizenship. After 6 months during the process of the case move to another country. Will that become grounds for losing the case?

If you go and say to the judge I moved to another country yes because you lost the animus (the will). If you don’t say anything you keep your will and the case can be won.

 

[Kula]

* how long did the process take (i understand it can vary considerably, depending on ghe judge)? - Depends
* is there a way to slow this process down? (Paradoxically that would potentially help me as - as far as i understand - during the process you are kind of protected, while a longer process might help me delaying in establishing my tax domicile here) - Yes you can, if judge asks you to bring some document and you don`t -the case will be paralized for eternity.
* as of when do the taxes (afip) come into play? - Never, the court does not even send oficios to AFIP, you need to proove that you have some funds for living, simple as that.
* what legal fees did you pay? (Lawyer) Are there also other legal fees? -It is 100% free. But there are associated costs- preparing documents, apostilles, translations, you also should publish a newspaper anouncment.

 

[Sdiz.usa]

I am living for almost two years here in Argentina (on a tourist visa). In these two years I went three times to Europe, two to three weeks each time for work related matters. Otherwise i made a couple of day trips to Colonia and Chile (while I was vaccationing in Patagonia). No overstays before Covid. I am married to an Argentinian citizen with two kids (Arg). I made once an attempt for permanent residency which I didnt complete (legal documents were complete, however some payment confirmations were missing and then i got fed up with the process).
I am not particularly keen on getting the citizenship per se. However, at one point i need to legalize my situation here. The risk of not reentering with my family being here is something that i want to avoid.
As far as I understand I am eligible for citizenship here.
Has anyone done this process before? Experiences? Especially i am keen to know
* how long did the process take (i understand it can vary considerably, depending on ghe judge)?
* is there a way to slow this process down? (Paradoxically that would potentially help me as - as far as i understand - during the process you are kind of protected, while a longer process might help me delaying in establishing my tax domicile here)
* as of when do the taxes (afip) come into play?
* what legal fees did you pay? (Lawyer) Are there also other legal fees?

May I shed some light on your situation?.....You need to establish permanent residency prior to citizenship. Be very...very....very....very...very...very...very... patient with the process, and someday you will be able to cut through ALL the red tape and accomplish it.

 

[dsp27]

Bajo or anyone familiar with the current timeline for the citizenship process at Tribunales.

1. Before Covid, in CABA, you'd go to Tribunales and start the procedure in person. Is this still the case or has everything moved online? I know lawyers can use the online system to do most things online but what about regular folk with a simple case that don't require asesoramiento.
2. Recently, the Agencia Federal de Inteligencia notified the courts that they will stop responding to their requests for oficios for each applicant. Has this had any effect on the length of the procedure? Is it still 18-24 months?
3. Additionally, do we know if all the institutions that used to issue oficios have moved entirely to electronic delivery to the court? I presume at least some were delivered on paper before. Digital delivery would shorten the procedure time.
4. Would the digital DNI (on your phone) be admissible for the start of the process?
5. As a resident, do I need to submit antecedentes penales from my home country to the court? I have read that some judges ask for these and some don't but ultimately all request the INTERPOL check.
6. Does the police still come to your address to check if you live there and talk to neighbors....?
7. Finally, out of all the oficios, which one takes the most time to be finalized?

Cheers!

 

[Kula]

1. Ask your court. So far never heard that some online system for regular guys was invented, there is only a system where you can see the cases that are already in process.

I believe it is needed to visit personally the court at least 1 time- to receive the sentencia. It is possible to submit any document to the court by regular/registered post but in that case you must certify the copy or the signature by Juez de Paz or escribano (so it is also personal). During COVID courts (at least some) were also accepting simple fotos of documents sent by email (was not possible before COVID). But the sentence procedure is still personal si o si.

2. When this happend? Would you be so kind to provide more info on AFI please.


3. As far as I know no. But if they did it does not matter, the institutions will still have the term during which they can respond (20 days if i remember correctly), but they can extend this time if it is justified. The problem is not the printing or posting.
For ex, one of the insitutions was not responding because there was nobody officialy in the required part of the office to send the electronic answer, go figure it. So court had to resend oficio 3 or 4 times to them and could not do anything because the institution had documented reasons for each delay.
Other instituion did not respond at all and when court started asking them it was " Sorry, you probably just did not receive our previous answer, so here we are answering for the second time", no proof of preious anwer was attached, no legal action from the court was taken after.

4. You can start even without DNI (I did, but it is not easy), but most courts will not finish the case till you will get a "real" DNI. Once you will get a plastic DNI they will need all new answers for oficios, so just starting case will not make sense in the long perspective unfortunately.

5. Both.

6. My police did not speak to neightbours even before COVID.

7. Right now renaper

PS on timeline my court can`t predict it, because every institution had there moments during the last 9 hard months. It is first pandemia and the court can`t predict anything once again, but hopefully it will be back to normal in 2021. Be aware that feria judicial starts and from now till 1 if February. So will see how it goes in February and after,

 

[dsp27]

2. When this happend? Would you be so kind to provide more info on AFI please.

La AFI ya no interviene en las solicitudes de cartas de ciudadanías

Cristina Caamaño informó a la justicia que la Agencia no es responsable de archivos o bases de datos que permitan responder las solicitudes judiciales en los trámites de ciudadanías de personas extranjeras.

www.argentina.gob.ar

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Bajo or anyone familiar with the current timeline for the citizenship process at Tribunales.

1. Before Covid, in CABA, you'd go to Tribunales and start the procedure in person. Is this still the case or has everything moved online? I know lawyers can use the online system to do most things online but what about regular folk with a simple case that don't require asesoramiento.

Lawyers don't "advice". You probably mean paralegals. Once the case is on you can mail them or to schedule an appointment:

2. Recently, the Agencia Federal de Inteligencia notified the courts that they will stop responding to their requests for oficios for each applicant. Has this had any effect on the length of the procedure? Is it still 18-24 months?

No, they used to reply in 2 weeks.

3. Additionally, do we know if all the institutions that used to issue oficios have moved entirely to electronic delivery to the court? I presume at least some were delivered on paper before. Digital delivery would shorten the procedure time.

Fingerprints for sure not. Renaper neither. Convenio Policial (the one that takes 7 months) neither. But the replies to Court are by mail and this makes everything faster.

4. Would the digital DNI (on your phone) be admissible for the start of the process?

You don´t need DNI to start the process but Yes.

5. As a resident, do I need to submit antecedentes penales from my home country to the court? I have read that some judges ask for these and some don't but ultimately all request the INTERPOL check.

You read wrong. I'm fighting this and I achieved success but it is not a no brainer.

6. Does the police still come to your address to check if you live there and talk to neighbors....?

No, the Chamber of appeals, the 3 of them decided against them because of Covid.

7. Finally, out of all the oficios, which one takes the most time to be finalized?
Cheers!

Convenio Policial as usual.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

May I shed some light on your situation?.....You need to establish permanent residency prior to citizenship. Be very...very....very....very...very...very...very... patient with the process, and someday you will be able to cut through ALL the red tape and accomplish it.

There is no light in your reply, quite the opposite.