Ciudadanía / Citizenship

[ElCordobés]

So my wife's case continues to progress. We received the call today (actually, it was an SMS) to arrange the visita. I understand this to be point #7 per Bajo_cero2. I assume this is pretty straight forward appt? We're scheduled for Thursday afternoon. Roughly two months after her testigos were requested and made their statements.

I will stop by both juzgados on Friday (assuming they are not closed to celebrate Día de la Revolución de Mayo) to check on the progress personally as I usually call. Every 6-8 weeks it appears my wife's case progresses, where as my secretary tells me that things are moving and to check back in 2-4 weeks, but I haven't seen anything happen. A little disconcerting. As I've mentioned before, we have the same judge but different juzgados (courts). No doubt each secretary has their own pace and way of doing things. I also suspect the vacated juzgado (my wife's) may not have the same case load even though we have the same judge. Just hope my secretary isn't pushing me off...Bajo_cero2 certainly has experience with that.

Anyone know the next step after testigos (witnesses) and the visit? Could it mean we're half way...more than half way...or it's all random and indicates nothing?

At least if my wife gets her carta first...it can only help my case being married to an Argentine.

Another update. As has been the case since the beginning--my wife's case keeps moving along. I stopped by the juzgado because I needed to address an issue with my case....will get to that in a moment. Anyway, had a look at her file and the clerk said that we should be able to publish her request soon (hopefully in a publication that is reasonably priced). And that if all goes well, her case should be complete by the end of the year. Yea! Hopefully that's the case. That would be 12 months total.

Now for mine. I have been calling regularly and was told things were on track until this last Friday when I learned that one of my "oficios" was rejected due to the prints (huellas). It's Reincidencia, which accepted my wife's in very short order and was one of the first to reply to juzgado.

I learned from the stamp of receipt on the document that my rejection was from late June (about 3 weeks after it was rejected by Reincidencia in late May, which seem reasonably quick, actually). I had contacted the juzgado two other times since they received the rejection (which I didn't know they had received)...Once in June and again in early August--it was only last Friday when I was advised of the issue. So today I re-did the prints with the Federal Police and have been told to wait two months by the juzgado. Not sure why I can't simply get a turno at Reincidenencia in Cordoba which can turn around requests in 24 hours. So I've lost at least two months (best case). I'm assuming there's no way to work around this issue. If there were an oficio that would appear the easiest to turn around quickly--it would be Reincidencia. I don't suppose I have can them accept my prints directly, so the don't reject my prints by the Federal Police again?

While we wait for my case, we will be able to get my daughter's completed ((I believe) if her mom gets her carta faster and has in hand. She will then be a child of an Argentine. The calender isn't in our favor now with summer recess from late December through all of January not far off. In hindsight, I would have insisted that I see my case file, I have had access to my wife's regularly, where I can actually speak to the clerk handling the case. I only met mine for the first time today (we have spoken on the phone many times). He has always been pleasant, but he always has his minions take my papers and questions while he stays in the back (Pleasant doesn't push the process). I didn't raise the issue of the June receipt of the rejected prints--as I don't need to rock the boat at this point with the person who is responsible for my case. Don't want any lost paperwork! So I will try to push back my estadounidense portion of myself and attempt to be more tranquilo and patiently wait like a good aspiring Argentine.

 

[ElCordobés]

Bajo_cero2 is probably the only one who knows this definitively. Documents from the interior take the "slow boat" to BsAs. I seem to recall having read something about delivering/filing the documents directly. I'm particularly concerned if my prints should be rejected again. I don't want to get into an cycle of delay simply due to fingerprint issues (I've never had them rejected for anything else before including FBI background check). If the process is to be delayed...I particularly don't wish to exceed two years and need to start over. A worst case, but something to at least keep in mind.

I may just go do the Certificado Digital de Antecedentes Penales for 100 pesos (24 hour turn around) with my DNI (I had previously done with my US passport). Not that I can present this to the court, but at least RNR (Reincidencia) will have some record that I exist and have no antecedentes under my DNI for when the request arrives again on the slow boat. It took 15 minutes to do this trámite when required for migracion. It probably won't help, but can't hurt. As you can see...I'm not doing a good job of staying tranquilo

 

[Bajo_cero2]

You can take the oficio and come to ba (antecedentes) and you can do the same with reincidencia but there is a place in Córdoba for sure.

 

[ElCordobés]

You can take the oficio and come to ba (antecedentes) and you can do the same with reincidencia but there is a place in Córdoba for sure.

That's great! I re-did the fingerprints on Monday with Federal Police. They kept the oficio and the main fingerprint card and gave me a two of the fingerprint cards back that I returned to the juzgado. So can I request back from the federal police (if they have not sent with their mail) or can I have the juzgado give me another copy of the oficio and I can bring directly to RNR myself? We have two locations in Cordoba (I have been to one of them). That's much more efficient than the alternative. Thanks!

 

[Bajo_cero2]

You have to wait 1 or 2 month before asking for a reiteratorio. They will probably reject your request.

 

[ElCordobés]

Update for the two people who might care to know.

My wife's final Argentine oficio from RENAPER (Registro Nacional) was just received. Bajo_cero2 noted this some months ago...expect a 7 month delay for this item. Her oficios were sent out in April so that's right on track. The clerk told be to check back in another 2-3 weeks regarding the Interpol and reiterated that publication will be very soon.

My case. I shared a PM with the ever helpful Bajo_cero2 regarding the issue of the fingerprints for Reincidencia. I did go ahead with this procedure and it was just as efficient. They required both my DNI and my US passport to complete it since I had previously done it with my passport. The DNI is the referenced number on the the document

I may just go do the Certificado Digital de Antecedentes Penales for 100 pesos (24 hour turn around) with my DNI (I had previously done with my US passport). Not that I can present this to the court, but at least RNR (Reincidencia) will have some record that I exist and have no antecedentes under my DNI for when the request arrives again on the slow boat. It took 15 minutes to do this trámite when required for migracion. It probably won't help, but can't hurt. As you can see...I'm not doing a good job of staying tranquilo

I then submitted to the court and they accepted it (I had thought previously that the court required something special from Reincidencia, but ho, it's this same Certificado...they just request the old fashioned way...actual fingerprint card rather than the digital prints). So hopefully that has moved the needle a bit in my case. My original oficios went out a few weeks after my wife's...with any luck my RENAPER will be returned soon (if it has not already arrived) I'm waiting another few weeks to follow up with the juzgado as too not irritate him too much!

I keep waiting for the major roadblock, but so far so good. If anyone that has any feedback (public or PM) for the final stages that I might look out for...let me know. Rightly, or wrongly...the proof of income has been my biggest pending concern (aside from all the oficios coming back). Although I'm registered as monotributista and faithfully pay the taxes and have an accountant...not sure any additional items the court might request in this regard.

Hopefully more news for both of us in late October.

 

[ElCordobés]

I spoke with both juzgados (courts) this morning. I can pick up my wife's edicto for publication as soon as I like (she doesn't need to be present). I called yesterday and they asked me to call back today to confirm it's ready. It is. We will publish the edicto in the paper (hopefully one of our choosing which could make it cheaper). I presume it will look something like this.

El señor Juez Federal Subrogante del Juzgado Federal de la ciudad de Bell Ville (Cba.) Dr. Ramón REBAK convoca a los ciudadanos en particular, para que por intermedio del Ministerio Público, hagan constar al Tribunal, las consideraciones que obsten a la concesión de la ciudadanía argentina, a la persona de Elías José Lobos Reyes, nacido el 21 de septiembre de 1945, en Barquisimeto, Estado Lara, Venezuela, de estado civil casado, domiciliado en 9 de Julio nº225 de la localidad de Alto Alegre, Departamento Unión, provincia de Córdoba; circunstancia que deberá verificarse en el término de diez (10) días, a computar del segundo día de la publicación de edictos SECRETARÍA, 10 de octubre de 2014​

Here's a handy site http://www.edictosjudiciales.com/ that lists all of the diarios (papers) in the country and how to do it.

Any tricks as to publishing the edicto? Any idea how long after publishing the edicto one might be granted the carta? I will ask when I pick it up in any case.

My juzgado: Provided it works for my testigo (witness to speak on my behalf)...we will be there Friday morning (my presence isn't required). My wife's case required two testigos. My juzgado confirmed that it only needs one. This should be the last requirement in my case...hopefully. With any luck I will have my edicto for publication soon after.

 

[ElCordobés]

Picked up my wife's edicto judicial today that states she is doing the trámite (process) of requesting Argentine citizenship. I was able to get it today despite a paro (strike). I should know better--always check the news if you're going to centro to do trámites! I confirmed that it had to be the main paper La Voz del Interior (I had asked whether I could do the Diaro Judicial if cheaper). . I tried at a receptoria (a place that can publish in classifieds), but had to go to the main office which happened to be a few blocks away at CENTRO DE ATENCIÓN AL CLIENTE, Avenida Colón 45, Centro, X5000EPA, Córdoba, Teléfono: (54) (351) 424-2385 (In case, we have any other Cordobeses reading BAExpats).
Fax: (54) (351) 425-8314 It will be published two non consecutive Saturdays but within the 15 day period. Total $275 pesos. (I imagine that's a bit cheaper than BsAs as the circulation is far lower). That gave me the receipt which reflected the exact language of the edicto and advised that it was the document to return to the juzgado as proof.

I will return the receipt early next week to the court and see where we go from there. If this is really it...I would advise anyone who is a permanent resident to start the process if they can have dual or multiple citizenships. I continue to expect a problem, but things continue to progress. Could it really be this simple?

One benefit for US Citizens, a MERCOSUR passport and visa free travel within the zone, plus 2-year MERCOSUR residency visa eligibility for MERCOSUR countries without anything more than a background check.

Total cost thus far....copies ARS$50-100, ARS$100 for Reincidencia (optional...it's free if the court requests for you), ARS$45 Antecedentes within the province of Córdoba, ARS$275 for the classified. I had already completed the documents for permanent residency, Apostilled Birth Cert and Marriage Cert along with my daughter's Argentine legalized birth cert. These were all still valid. They did an Interpol background check. I have NOT been asked for an FBI check (that would be a surprise if they requested at this late stage). I don't think that I'm missing any expenses. Bus fares and gas could be included, but it's a nominal expense.

So total--roughly USD$50. (averaging blue maybe 12 over the course of the year). That's actually a little insane, but it's known to be accessible to all income levels. Will see whether some of the xenophobic statements of late slow down those requesting citizenship or if they change the requirements in some way.

Of course there's the cost of my time. My wife showed up once to the juzgado to turn in the initial papers, once for fingerprints with the federal police, once with her testigos (although her presence was not required) and she's not been back since. Not sure whether she will be required to read, speak Spanish for someone or if the next thing she will do would be the oath (fingers crossed).

Most of my time as just been phone calls...never more than 4-5 minutes. Otherwise I have scheduled my visits around tramites and have never had a long wait. This might be due to province. BsAs could be more difficult.

 

[bdk1]

One benefit for US Citizens, a MERCOSUR passport and visa free travel within the zone, plus 2-year MERCOSUR residency visa eligibility for MERCOSUR countries without anything more than a background check.

Actually, this is not 100% as straightforward as one would imagine. If you want to move to Brazil (the MERCOSUR country most expats usually want to move to, and the only one where it's not easy to do so) you need to have been an Argentine citizen for at least 5 years.

 

[bobsnowpuppy]

And, although Argentina allows dual citizenship with the US, the US does not permit it with Argentina. when my argentine husband got his US passport they told him this when they destroyed his argie passport. Now back in argentina, he got a new passport here but has technically defied the US law and they could revoke his citizenship.