Cons to getting Argentine citizenship for Americans?

[Bajo_cero2]

As far as consular assistance, U.S. consular officers can't just break an American out of jail. That's ridiculous. What they can do is ensure that an American is being treated fairly and humanely.

Foreigners can be only at Federal Jails.
And normally they are arrested while they wait for the trial (2 years normally).
They have a strong dicipline system that will make you feel a conscrip. First they keep you at Ezeiza but, as soon you are convicted they send you to the facility located in the Chaco where the wheather is too hot and the food not enough (first hand info from a person whom I defended and was sent there). Nobody wants to be sent to El Chaco but as soon as you might not have family here, they send you there.

http://www.spf.gov.ar/index.php?opt...:cpf-i&catid=34:provincia-de-chaco&Itemid=273

If you are Argentine, it is difficult to be in jail during the procedure.
While a foreigner is arrested as a normal practice, under the same situation, an Argentine:
a) can be granted with freedom with his word asserting that he is not going to escape from justice;
b) Can sign a plea bargaing and get freedom with criminal records;
c) Can sign a suspensión de juicio a prueba and finish the prosecuting without criminal records if he behaves and does social work for some years 1 hour per week.
If you are convicted, you can be granted with being arrested at home with an electronic device that controls you.
If you have to be in Jail, your lawyer can ask for an "establecimiento modelo" that means that you can choose to be in the best facilities like "Barker" close to Tandil or Necochea. You have proper food, 72 channels at the tv, nice but not luxury facilities, relaxed dicipline and lots of open spaces and working oportunities inside the Jail. They have many artisan activities for making some money like the farm, blacksmith, carpentry, or sports like tennis, soccer, etc, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y382mST7d-k

Criminals call Barker "the Hotel".

The Consul cannot get this for you while this is almost automatic if you are a citizen and you have a decent lawyer.
Regards

 

[ndcj]

Citizenship has nothing to do with taxes. If you are a US citizen, you have to pay taxes on your worldwide income, same as Argentina citizens.

For American expats living abroad in Argentina, they should be paying ZERO taxes in the USA. Income tax rates in Argentina are 35%, which is above the rate in the USA. So you can take a foreign tax credit on your USA return for all Argentina taxes paid and pay nothing to the United States.

This information is incorrect. Unlike most countries, the United States taxes its citizens on their worldwide income regardless of whether they are resident in the United States.

Most other countries, Argentina included, tax only based on residency. The definition of tax residency isn't the same as residency for immigration purposes. If you've been here more than six months and are a "perma-tourist", you almost certainly are a tax resident of Argentina and liable to pay Argentine taxes on your worldwide income.

If you become a citizen of Argentina, nothing changes. You still pay taxes on worldwide income in Argentina if you are a tax resident, and you still pay tax on Argentine source income regardless of your residency. Citizenship has zero bearing.

The US has an exemption from taxes on the first $US95k (indexed) of foreign EARNED income if you are not resident in the US. Passive income (like rent from a property) is not earned income and is taxed as if you were in the US.

#2. You can enter any mercosur country with your DNI if you are an Argentina citizen. If you only have Argentina residency, you cannot travel to mercosur countries without your passport.

This is also incorrect. Read my previous post that explains:

Correct. If you are a resident (but not a citizen) of Argentina and have a DNI, you can enter the following countries with just your DNI so long as you would not ordinarilly need a visa for your country of citizenship that is shown in your DNI Extranjero:

• Chile (only if the date of residency in your DNI is more than two years ago and you are entering Chile from Argentina, not a third country)
• Columbia
• Ecuador
• Peru
• Uruguay

For all other countries, including Brazil & Paraguay, you need your passport.

 

[el_expatriado]

This information is incorrect. Unlike most countries, the United States taxes its citizens on their worldwide income regardless of whether they are resident in the United States.

Most other countries, Argentina included, tax only based on residency. The definition of tax residency isn't the same as residency for immigration purposes. If you've been here more than six months and are a "perma-tourist", you almost certainly are a tax resident of Argentina and liable to pay Argentine taxes on your worldwide income.

If you become a citizen of Argentina, nothing changes. You still pay taxes on worldwide income in Argentina if you are a tax resident, and you still pay tax on Argentine source income regardless of your residency. Citizenship has zero bearing.

The US has an exemption from taxes on the first $US95k (indexed) of foreign EARNED income if you are not resident in the US. Passive income (like rent from a property) is not earned income and is taxed as if you were in the US.

This is also incorrect. Read my previous post that explains:

Your information is incorrect. US citizens who pay taxes in Argentina pay ZERO income tax due to the foreign tax credit. Tax rates are HIGHER IN ARGENTINA than they are in the USA, so your Argentine income tax offsets 100% of your USA income taxes.

Also, note that your DNI will not get you into Brazil, a country that requires visas for US citizens, so only Argentina citizenship will allow that.

My posts are correct in both cases. Argentine citizenship WILL NOT affect a US Citizens' tax situation and will permit him or her to travel VISA FREE to more countries than someone with US citizenship and Argentina residency only.

 

[el_expatriado]

Well, what exactly do you expect from the US embassy?

For example, if you own land with water or close to the border, being a foreigner you might loose it according to the new law of land ownership. And the US nothing can do about that. But being Argentine, that law doesn´t enforce to you.

Regards

Exactly! It is much better to be a citizen. I bought some land on a border area with an Argentine partner of mine and I can't appear on the escritura until I get my citizenship granted.

It is much safer to be a citizen of the country you reside in than a foreign national with permanent residency. As a foreigner, you are subject to the whims of the executive branch, who controls enforcement of migratory policy.

Cristina could wake up tomorrow, brainwashed by D'Elia and decide to throw out all the foreigners who come from the northern hemisphere from Argentina and everyone who has permanent residency could be deported. It is much safer to be a citizen of the country you reside in, especially if you have significant investments there.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

...

Cristina could wake up tomorrow, brainwashed by D'Elia and decide to throw out all the foreigners who come from the northern hemisphere from Argentina and everyone who has permanent residency could be deported. It is much safer to be a citizen of the country you reside in, especially if you have significant investments there.

Significant investments such as a wife?

 

[el_expatriado]

Significant investments such as a wife?

Hahahaha, my wife won't let me get away with calling her an investment. She's starting to read baexpats.org, so I have to be careful what I say now.

But yes, "significant investments" in the case of many and "significant other" in my personal case.

If they decided to kick out foreigners, maybe they'd make an exception for those of us who are married to Argentines. Or more likely, they'd kick out my wife as well for being a vendepatria. Hahaha.

 

[ndcj]

Your information is incorrect. US citizens who pay taxes in Argentina pay ZERO income tax due to the foreign tax credit. Tax rates are HIGHER IN ARGENTINA than they are in the USA, so your Argentine income tax offsets 100% of your USA income taxes.

I wasn't incorrect.

Argentina's tax rate is not a flat 35%. It's far more complicated than that. For example, if you are a monotributista categoria I, your tax rate is 8.8% on up to 200,000 pesos (44,718 USD at the official rate - which is what the IRS uses). Also, capital gains from stocks listed on the Merval are not taxed as income in Argentina but are taxable as income for you as a US citizen as far as the IRS is concerned.

You are taxed on your worldwide income by the US government regardless of residency if you are a citizen. The fact you can claim deductions of taxes paid elsewhere, even if reduces your tax liability to zero doesn't mean you're not subject to income tax, just that you had deductions that reduced it to zero.

You still have to file a tax return every year, you are still subject to audit, etc.

My posts are correct in both cases. Argentine citizenship WILL NOT affect a US Citizens' tax situation and will permit him or her to travel VISA FREE to more countries than someone with US citizenship and Argentina residency only.

You said:

If you only have Argentina residency, you cannot travel to mercosur countries without your passport.

This is wrong information. Read the list I posted, you can enter a bunch of countries (Mercosur and others) without your passport. Brazil and Paraguay still need a visa and your passport (like I said), but that doesn't negate the five other countries you can enter your DNI extranjero.

By the way, the information I posted about Chile requiring two years residency before you can use your DNI is technically correct, but in practice, I've traveled recently via a land border to Chile and they didn't care about the date.

 

[el_expatriado]

I wasn't incorrect.

Argentina's tax rate is not a flat 35%. It's far more complicated than that. For example, if you are a monotributista categoria I, your tax rate is 8.8% on up to 200,000 pesos (44,718 USD at the official rate - which is what the IRS uses). Also, capital gains from stocks listed on the Merval are not taxed as income in Argentina but are taxable as income for you as a US citizen as far as the IRS is concerned.

You are taxed on your worldwide income by the US government regardless of residency if you are a citizen. The fact you can claim deductions of taxes paid elsewhere, even if reduces your tax liability to zero doesn't mean you're not subject to income tax, just that you had deductions that reduced it to zero.

You still have to file a tax return every year, you are still subject to audit, etc.

Ok, you are getting very technical here about what expats need to pay and what they don't need to pay and to whom. I'm talking about income taxes, not capital gains taxes on stocks traded on the merval, which I'm sure very few (if any) expats own. The normal expat situation -- employment by a company here in Argentina, or the owner of a small business here in Argentina who pays income tax here, can pay $0 income tax in the USA due to the foreign tax credit. The progressive tax rates here in Argentina are MUCH HIGHER than in the USA, so it will always create a $0 income tax situation for most USA expats.

And my entire point was that nothing changes due to the fact that someone acquires Argentine citizenship. It is not going to generate more taxes for you in either country.

So I say go ahead with Argentine citizenship. Don't let tax reasons hold you back!

 

[ndcj]

Ok, you are getting very technical here about what expats need to pay and what they don't need to pay and to whom. I'm talking about income taxes, not capital gains taxes on stocks traded on the merval, which I'm sure very few (if any) expats own. The normal expat situation -- employment by a company here in Argentina, or the owner of a small business here in Argentina who pays income tax here, can pay $0 income tax in the USA due to the foreign tax credit. The progressive tax rates here in Argentina are MUCH HIGHER than in the USA, so it will always create a $0 income tax situation for most USA expats.

And my entire point was that nothing changes due to the fact that someone acquires Argentine citizenship. It is not going to generate more taxes for you in either country.

So I say go ahead with Argentine citizenship. Don't let tax reasons hold you back!

It's not just theoretical. You could misunderstand otherwise that you had magically a zero dollar tax obligation in the US. Monotributista is the big one, and that's not "very technical". Not just stocks, but CDs and other bank sourced interest income are tax exempt here. Non-earned income doesn't qualify for the foreign earned income credit, leaving you with a tax bill in the US for that income.

Aside from that, you still have to file a full tax return, be able to prove your deductions (for tax paid here, etc) and be subject to audit in two countries for nothing more than an accident of where you were born.

You're right, however, in relation to taking Argentine citizenship, nothing changes, because unlike the United States, Argentina doesn't tax its non-resident citizens for nothing more than the "privilege" of being a US citizen.

 

[Napoleon]

If you are Argentine, it is difficult to be in jail during the procedure.
While a foreigner is arrested as a normal practice, under the same situation, an Argentine:
a) can be granted with freedom with his word asserting that he is not going to escape from justice;
b) Can sign a plea bargaing and get freedom with criminal records;
c) Can sign a suspensión de juicio a prueba and finish the prosecuting without criminal records if he behaves and does social work for some years 1 hour per week.
If you are convicted, you can be granted with being arrested at home with an electronic device that controls you.
If you have to be in Jail, your lawyer can ask for an "establecimiento modelo" that means that you can choose to be in the best facilities like "Barker" close to Tandil or Necochea. You have proper food, 72 channels at the tv, nice but not luxury facilities, relaxed dicipline and lots of open spaces and working oportunities inside the Jail. They have many artisan activities for making some money like the farm, blacksmith, carpentry, or sports like tennis, soccer, etc, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y382mST7d-k

Criminals call Barker "the Hotel".

The Consul cannot get this for you while this is almost automatic if you are a citizen and you have a decent lawyer.
Regards

You forgot to mention:

If you are Argentine and you are in jail, the government might decide to let you out of jail and then give you a plane ticket to fly to another continent to attend the World Cup.

That's happened in the past and therefore there's no reason why it won't happen in the future.