Consumer Protection Agency in Buenos Aires

[Ceviche]

I'm sorry if I give the impression that "the rest of you are duffers, broken, lost entities" .

Thank you.

 

[earlyretirement]

Thank you.

No problem. I'll work on that. Unfortunately with typing vs. speaking things can get taken the wrong way. It's good to know and I'll work on it. Many times when I post about companies that I have invested in Argentina, accountants, lawyers, bankers, etc is because just from all these investments I deal with massive amounts of these people on a regular basis which creates unique experiences and glimpses into the banking/judicial/legal/banking system. So many times I want to emphasize that there is a lot of experiences based over the past 20 years of working there. Vs. just being an ex-pat with not too many encounters or experiences with judicial system, banking system, mediation, taxes, etc.

I'd venture to guess many ex-pats here don't really have to focus on really difficult things on a daily basis that other business owners have to deal with. Not saying everyone doesn't have their own struggles but that's the point I'm getting across many times that seems to be taken the wrong way.

You asked about why I started posting more and it's because I am thinking of moving back full time. I spend several months a year there but toying with the idea of moving back there full time.

I mentioned this in other posts but I truly love Argentina very passionately. Sometimes I get so frustrated and post about the negative things because I truly want to see systemic change in my lifetime. But please don't take my posts the wrong way. They aren't meant to put down anyone. I love Argentina and I always will. Despite all the inefficiencies and problems and issues. I'll always love it and just want to see the best for it.

 

[Macanudo]

Earlyretirement: I'm been a member here for almost 10 years and I don't remember ever having come across another poster more knowledgeable about a wide range of pertinent subjects and diplomatic than you. A month or two ago people were complaining about lack of interesting posts and what could be done to stimulate traffic here. I think your input has played a very important part in revitalizing this site. Thank you for contributions. Please keep up the good work.

 

[B52]

Early Retirement:

Thank you for getting back inline.
I´m the frequent flyer here.

 

[earlyretirement]

Earlyretirement: I'm been a member here for almost 10 years and I don't remember ever having come across another poster more knowledgeable about a wide range of pertinent subjects and diplomatic than you. A month or two ago people were complaining about lack of interesting posts and what could be done to stimulate traffic here. I think your input has played a very important part in revitalizing this site. Thank you for contributions. Please keep up the good work.

Thanks for those really kind words Macanudo! It's greatly appreciated. Yes, I used to stop by over the past few years and I noticed it got mostly dead. I used to constantly see new content and responses but it seems over the years I saw more fighting, trolls, arguing about petty things, political debates, etc.

I like to contribute when I can if I have an opinion that I think would be applicable to the thread. I've had so many different experiences here in Argentina over the past 20 years. Like I said, I may not always be right but I will at least give you as objectively as I can my personal experience and opinion on something. I'm here to learn as much as any of you all are.

But still, if I read something that I just totally disagree with then I feel obligated to point out my experiences on it. So when someone posts how things are efficient on a particular subject or how they got something resolved with their administrator quickly and reasonably then I want to hear about it. I personally own many properties in Buenos Aires and that is very far from my experience with them.

Most of these administrations are horribly inefficient, deceitful (based on my experiences), unorganized, sloppy with accounting. They are constantly turning over. I've only had one building where I own in where the administration is very good and hasn't turned over and been there since the building was finished. But most of them just aren't organized.

Others that were stealing money and got caught there was no real recourse. I guess you can try mediation but when they go out of business there isn't really anything you can do. I'm really interested in hearing about personal experiences on this thread and examples of someone answering my question about all their great experiences. I've just never personally seen that or heard about it with friends or acquaintances.

Thanks again Macanudo. I'm glad not everyone finds my posts as offensive as others. I've been a moderator on several very large national message boards dealing with various topics including economy and finance and investing. And always make an effort to post objectively and try to be as polite as possible. So again apologies to anyone that took my posts the wrong way.

One thing I've learned moderating on various forums for so many years is that you're not going to please everyone all of the time. And some people will not be happy no matter what you write. But I never like offending anyone intentionally.

 

[jantango]

jatango,

Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled to hear that you're getting meaningful resolutions. So how many of these "mediation processes" have you been through? And what were the results? Was it an outcome you were happy with? From start when you file the claim to the outcome, how long did it take?

First of all, the city has a new mayor Horacio Rodriguez Laretta who listens and responds to citizens at his quarterly neighborhood meetings. I went to these meetings when Laretta was vice mayor under Macri. I encourage you to attend these meetings and learn about what is going on in your neighborhoods.

My first mediation process is detailed in the thread about noisy neighbors when I filed a report with the police, presented my case to a lawyer at the Ministerio Publico Fiscal on Bme Mitre 1735, followed by a mediation hearing at their offices. It took months to resolve, but the desired results were achieved. My noisy downstairs neighbors are quiet after many years; noise began the month I moved in, March 2002. I didn't know about mediacion comunitaria then. Now I do, and that is why I am sharing it on this forum.

I have two hearing dates scheduled this month. There are more cases filed with consumer protection, so the wait is six weeks for a hearing. The one I filed with community mediation was scheduled in three weeks. I will report on both hearings on this thread.

A neighbor on my street complained about their consorcio administrator, so I supplied the form he needs to file a complaint with consumer protection and where to present it in the new Comuna 3 offices. Generally, people who work don't have the time for these situations. Our consorcio almost hired his administrator earlier this year. If owners don't speak up, their administrators continue doing nothing for them or as little as possible.

 

[GMXam]

First of all, the city has a new mayor Horacio Rodriguez Laretta who listens and responds to citizens at his quarterly neighborhood meetings. I went to these meetings when Laretta was vice mayor under Macri. I encourage you to attend these meetings and learn about what is going on in your neighborhoods.

My first mediation process is detailed in the thread about noisy neighbors when I filed a report with the police, presented my case to a lawyer at the Ministerio Publico Fiscal on Bme Mitre 1735, followed by a mediation hearing at their offices. It took months to resolve, but the desired results were achieved. My noisy downstairs neighbors are quiet after many years; noise began the month I moved in, March 2002. I didn't know about mediacion comunitaria then. Now I do, and that is why I am sharing it on this forum.

I have two hearing dates scheduled this month. There are more cases filed with consumer protection, so the wait is six weeks for a hearing. The one I filed with community mediation was scheduled in three weeks. I will report on both hearings on this thread.

A neighbor on my street complained about their consorcio administrator, so I supplied the form he needs to file a complaint with consumer protection and where to present it in the new Comuna 3 offices. Generally, people who work don't have the time for these situations. Our consorcio almost hired his administrator earlier this year. If owners don't speak up, their administrators continue doing nothing for them or as little as possible.

Thank you, Jantango. You are one of the handful here who have continuously volunteered up for public scrutiny your firsthand experiences as an original post which I find to be “useful content” rather than just an opinion. I appreciate how you frequently detail the steps you’ve taken in these accounts and how you would do things differently when you realize there may have been a better way.

I do value the opinions of others, but I put much greater weight on experience that is detailed in a post. I’m more likely to take it with a grain of salt without that explanation of experience.

Again, thanks for your useful posts, Jan.

 

[earlyretirement]

First of all, the city has a new mayor Horacio Rodriguez Laretta who listens and responds to citizens at his quarterly neighborhood meetings. I went to these meetings when Laretta was vice mayor under Macri. I encourage you to attend these meetings and learn about what is going on in your neighborhoods.

My first mediation process is detailed in the thread about noisy neighbors when I filed a report with the police, presented my case to a lawyer at the Ministerio Publico Fiscal on Bme Mitre 1735, followed by a mediation hearing at their offices. It took months to resolve, but the desired results were achieved. My noisy downstairs neighbors are quiet after many years; noise began the month I moved in, March 2002. I didn't know about mediacion comunitaria then. Now I do, and that is why I am sharing it on this forum.

I have two hearing dates scheduled this month. There are more cases filed with consumer protection, so the wait is six weeks for a hearing. The one I filed with community mediation was scheduled in three weeks. I will report on both hearings on this thread.

A neighbor on my street complained about their consorcio administrator, so I supplied the form he needs to file a complaint with consumer protection and where to present it in the new Comuna 3 offices. Generally, people who work don't have the time for these situations. Our consorcio almost hired his administrator earlier this year. If owners don't speak up, their administrators continue doing nothing for them or as little as possible.

That's fabulous Jantango. I never read your post about the noisy neighbors. Sounds like the process is a good first step. I wasn't surprised to hear it took many months. But at least you got the problem resolved! That's great. I look forward to reading about how this turns out so keep us posted.

I wish things worked quicker but I just haven't had any experiences which things quickly got resolved. Took months and months typically. But it's good to hear about these things to at least start the process. From my experience, even if you send a carta documento and complain most people don't take immediate action because there is no real consequences because people know the judicial system doesn't work there efficiently (if at all).

Do you know what happens if someone just ignores the mediation request? Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ceviche]

Thank you, Jantango. You are one of the handful here who have continuously volunteered up for public scrutiny your firsthand experiences as an original post which I find to be “useful content” rather than just an opinion. I appreciate how you frequently detail the steps you’ve taken in these accounts and how you would do things differently when you realize there may have been a better way.

I do value the opinions of others, but I put much greater weight on experience that is detailed in a post. I’m more likely to take it with a grain of salt without that explanation of experience.

Again, thanks for your useful posts, Jan.

Well said GX mam.

 

[earlyretirement]

Jantango,

I went back to the original URL that you detailed about your noisy neighbor expecting to find some smooth, more efficient process but instead I read about just what I had been talking about. Slow, inefficient outcome. That's more or less what I'd expect. While yes it's good to start somewhere, I don't leave that thread coming away with the feeling that it really helped you resolve the situation efficiently or easier. No more than just sending a carta documento, getting the administration involved, etc. like people really do.

I've also had neighbors like this and as mentioned, it's always a pain dealing with. I went down the carta documento, etc. path but it took a while. But I'd say even in my case it went smoother and quicker than what you mentioned on that website but definitely it doesn't hurt to start there. Did you have any fees at all dealing with them and filing a case?

What about if it had to go further and you had to take legal action. You'd pay for all legal fees dealing with that. Yes? It's not as if you filed on that website and they would help you with legal fees? Or assign a lawyer to assist you?

I read in that original thread you posted about someone else that had physical violence threatened to them if they proceeded with the case. I've also known friends that had a similar situation. They ended up just selling and moving. Then I know others where they got phone calls all hours of the night waking them up calling and also ringing their doorbell over and over. It mysteriously stopped once they stopped trying to get anywhere with their carta documento.

It sounds like a good place to start the process but it's far from ensuring that you'll get some quick and immediate outcome. I've had several legal actions I took against people and honestly in almost each case it's not been worth it because the judicial system is painfully slow, you have to still pay lawyers which often times in some disputes takes YEARS.

I'd be curious to hear what happens if someone ignores a mediation request? What penalty they have. That's more or less what I found the problem is. You can have laws but in the end there aren't many consequences for someone when they do something bad. Since everything is so inefficient and no efficient judicial system things take forever.

When it comes down to it, if someone wants to be a Ahole in Argentina it's painful to deal with. But thanks again for taking the time to detail this process and can't wait to hear more about it. Next time I have some issue, I'll try it.