Devastating.

[AmigoArtistico]

No, I mean, yes this government is runnning out of money, but we have assets, like vaca muerta (houndreds of billions) and mega mineria and other stuffs that make bankrupt a rare probability.

What was that that happened in 2001? Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[Rich One]

its all about the distribuition of wealth. In 2004 the upper classes took 17 times what the poorer decile, today its 12. Chiles is 35.

Then no need to worry 12 is very good! According to world bank is GINI index is MUCH higher see link below. how did you obtain 12? What is 12?

http://www.indexmund...tina/gini-index

 

[Matiasba]

The problem being matias is that you dont want to measure argentina by past performance but keep telling us about things that happened in the past.

My view is that past bad behaviour by certain sections of the population should have given rise to stronger independent institutions. In that alone i agree with the economist. Country must have an independent central bank, judiciary and civil service.

Actually in some respects Argentina has a post conflict social climate, most Argentines have a mindset stuck in conflict mode, there is no rhetoric from the govt and certainly not from you matias about forgiveness and inclusion. Actually the inclusion promoted by fpv is the inclusion of their voting base, it is not universal. Its sad, maybe only massa makes some noises about working with everyone but its not loud or convincing. The conflict of the 21st century has been economic and it feels like the fighting is still in progress.

We have bogeymen terms like the campora and the neoliberals thrown around and everyone seems to have to take a side, its black and white, all very binary and this of course creates divisions in society which echo through many if not all social interactions. Again, its sad to see a people so divided. Really reminds me of Belfast in the early 90s.

Look, I believe than in a lot of ways YES you can divide society (economically and politically) into two big ENORMOUS fields. Call it how you like, left and right, or republicans and democrats, I think you understand. The bottom line is that while somes win, others lose, the gain they make, they take it from the loser. Thats pretty much what Marx said, and we cant deny its influence in societies, in the past and nowadays too (where does the left come if not from Marx?)
Thats oposed interests, you can not have a win win situation.
In this country, the industry, the development of industry, it is and always have been, financed by the agro. That creates quality jobs, much more employment to everyone, mobility, progress, people to have they first house and salary with an obra social, vacaciones, etc. Do you think the agro want for them to the State take their money or to make them sell their cows in the internal market?

Its a zero sum game. You cant govern, I cant govern. Conclusion: the country dont advance.
So its impossible to not have this big huge, conflict present in Argentina. Thats the decadence, stagnation.

 

[Matiasba]

Then no need to worry 12 is very good! According to world bank is GINI index is MUCH higher see link below. how did you obtain 12? What is 12?

http://www.indexmund...tina/gini-index

you can measure inequality by Gini index, or by comparing the first decile (the 10% richer) with the 10% poorer.
You see how many times the poorer gain enters in the rich, how many times the rich earn compared to the poor.
In 2004 the richest 10% earned 17 times what the poorer, now 12.

latin america is the more inequality region in the world, we have Chile, Brasil, Mexico, Paraguay, Peru, where inequality is huge. Not so much Uruguay and Argentina.

 

[AmigoArtistico]

Look, I believe than in a lot of ways YES you can divide society (economically and politically) into two big ENORMOUS fields. Call it how you like, left and right, or republicans and democrats, I think you understand. The bottom line is that while somes win, others lose, the gain they make, they take it from the loser. Thats pretty much what Marx said, and we cant deny its influence in societies, in the past and nowadays too (where does the left come if not from Marx?)
Thats oposed interests, you can not have a win win situation.
In this country, the industry, the development of industry, it is and always have been, financed by the agro. That creates quality jobs, much more employment to everyone, mobility, progress, people to have they first house and salary with an obra social, vacaciones, etc. Do you think the agro want for them to the State take their money or to make them sell their cows in the internal market?

Its a zero sum game. You cant govern, I cant govern. Conclusion: the country dont advance.
So its impossible to not have this big huge, conflict present in Argentina. Thats the decadence, stagnation.

I see your trick now. Very clever. If you say something so confused and twisted that we can't even begin to understand it, we can't possibly respond.

Well done.

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

Look, I believe than in a lot of ways YES you can divide society (economically and politically) into two big ENORMOUS fields. Call it how you like, left and right, or republicans and democrats, I think you understand. The bottom line is that while somes win, others lose, the gain they make, they take it from the loser. Thats pretty much what Marx said, and we cant deny its influence in societies, in the past and nowadays too (where does the left come if not from Marx?)
Thats oposed interests, you can not have a win win situation.
In this country, the industry, the development of industry, it is and always have been, financed by the agro. That creates quality jobs, much more employment to everyone, mobility, progress, people to have they first house and salary with an obra social, vacaciones, etc. Do you think the agro want for them to the State take their money or to make them sell their cows in the internal market?

Its a zero sum game. You cant govern, I cant govern. Conclusion: the country dont advance.
So its impossible to not have this big huge, conflict present in Argentina. Thats the decadence, stagnation.

With a stable currency this would be a moot point, i think you're ignoring the root cause.

No, not every society exists in binary. I hope you get the chance to travel and experience how diversity of opinion can exist and society prosper.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

The comment on "weak institutions, nativist politicians, lazy dependence on a few assets and a persistent refusal to confront reality" rings true.

 

[sleslie23]

If I keep reading Matias' posts I'm going to turn into an uber capitalist neo-liberal fan boy (to use Joe's phrase).

When I first moved here, there were billboards saying: "Argentina un país en serio."

A few weeks ago, I saw one that read: "Argentina, vale la pena."

Talk about setting the bar low. What's next? "Argentina, es lo que hay?"

I agree with Dublin. Matias, I really hope you get a chance to travel to countries that are "en serio." And I don't mean going to Orlando.

 

[Matiasba]

I did travel, not much I must say, but more than a lot of people. I ve been in NY and Boston, and Brazil, Germany, Spain and France...
I noted differences of course. Huge.
I wouldnt say a differenece in ideology will change travelling.

 

[Icabod]

Back to the meat, it is of course a matter of preference, but most Gringos (a limited applicant pool, I understand) comment on the high quality of the meat, no doubt, and the constant fight to get it "jugoso" which is often ignored. Surprisingly, unlike in many other countries, I have a better track record in touristy restaurants (like La Brigada) because they are accustomed to this preference. We also bitch about lack of spices, but the meat is so good it really isn't necessary. Admittedly, I like it red and barely warm. Beyond that, consider it burnt! I am too tired to attack Matias, so I will leave that to the rest of you.