Don't Learn From The Past? Future Repetition.

[Noesdeayer]

"Boys,.....democrarcy is born of dialogue with those who think differently.Argentina has a future because the world is going to need food,but do not be confused our weakness is not productive,but rather, political". Peron 1977.
How very true.However,now 38 years later thanks largely to the Ks the Argentine problem is BOTH productive and political.Jose BerGilbard ex-communist party militant and economy minister under Campora had just left a meeting with Peron where Gelbard had told him that he was worried because he (Gelbhard) was becoming a Peronist.Peron himself answered him," Right now,when I stopped being one".It wasn't a pun or a play on words it was what Peron himself had come to realize that Justicialism was the over politization of everything and that is why he said what I quoted above.Are you listening Matias?
Gelbhard had to exile himself in the Great Satan (OMG like Stiuso?) where he died in 1977.Why didn't he exile to Cuba with whom he had excellent relations ?

 

[camberiu]

 

[Rich One]

"Boys,.....democrarcy is born of dialogue with those who think differently.Argentina has a future because the world is going to need food,but do not be confused our weakness is not productive,but rather, political". Peron 1977.
How very true.However,now 38 years later thanks largely to the Ks the Argentine problem is BOTH productive and political.Jose BerGilbard ex-communist party militant and economy minister under Campora had just left a meeting with Peron where Gelbard had told him that he was worried because he (Gelbhard) was becoming a Peronist.Peron himself answered him," Right now,when I stopped being one".It wasn't a pun or a play on words it was what Peron himself had come to realize that Justicialism was the over politization of everything and that is why he said what I quoted above.Are you listening Matias?
Gelbhard had to exile himself in the Great Satan (OMG like Stiuso?) where he died in 1977.Why didn't he exile to Cuba with whom he had excellent relations ?

Jose Ber Gelbard was buried in LA. After the return of democracy in 1983 his son recovered all his US$20MM in properties and stocks un ALUAR, Continental,



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ber_Gelbard

 

[Noesdeayer]

Glad nobody picked up my tipo. Peron 1974 not '77.Gelbard was a typical Peronist.He played both ends against the middle. "Jugaba a las 2 puntas".He didn't exile to Cuba because he knew that the butter on the bread is on the top not the bottom.That's why is son eventually got that U$D 20 M.If you read the biographical Wikipedia link Rich One sent,you will see hat he was instrumental in exporting cars from U.S. manufacturers in Argentina to Cuba .More interesting was the export of some busses which the Cubans NEVER paid for.In 2004 when Rafael Bielsa was in Havana negotiatng different past debts,he brought it up to them.The Cuban foreign minister then (his name slips my mind) made an illusion to Argentina's monumental debt default by saying,"Te suena,chico?".."Sound familar,kid ? The same old tango year after year.Only the singers change.

 

[sesamosinsal]

... Alright. I don't mean to be rude (sincerely), but what is your point?

 

[Noesdeayer]

Bradly: My point quite simply is that Peronism since its inception has always tried to have it both ways playing left and right at the same time .Never taking a really clear cut stand on anything in order to cover themselves and switch to the other side when they started losing.Peron pointed this out in the aforementioned quote when he said "Just now when I've stopped being one (a Peronist)..".If they win this election,they will cut a deal with the vultures and then "business as usual". The majority of Argentines believe it is the sole responsibility of the winning party to govern.They don't need to get involved in participative government activities.-"no te metas"-"don't get involved".Herminio Iglesias said it best,"El Peronismo es un sentimiento"-"Peronism is a feeling".Feelings can be fleeting and changing.as we all know.However,this is in flux at the moment and there might be a surprise in the offing.

 

[Matiasba]

"Boys,.....democrarcy is born of dialogue with those who think differently.Argentina has a future because the world is going to need food,but do not be confused our weakness is not productive,but rather, political". Peron 1977.
How very true.However,now 38 years later thanks largely to the Ks the Argentine problem is BOTH productive and political.Jose BerGilbard ex-communist party militant and economy minister under Campora had just left a meeting with Peron where Gelbard had told him that he was worried because he (Gelbhard) was becoming a Peronist.Peron himself answered him," Right now,when I stopped being one".It wasn't a pun or a play on words it was what Peron himself had come to realize that Justicialism was the over politization of everything and that is why he said what I quoted above.Are you listening Matias?
Gelbhard had to exile himself in the Great Satan (OMG like Stiuso?) where he died in 1977.Why didn't he exile to Cuba with whom he had excellent relations ?

Peronism is where, by accident, the revolutionary left fell in the 60s. Peronism was in fact far from the left, but its prohibition by the militars during 20 years, made the left believe that it was its ally.

Peronism was, and still is, argentine keynesianism. And it was a great mistake from the left, the 1960s left, not the original, from the 30s or so, this was a different left, idealistic young people inspired in french may, in hippism, in the cuban revolution, etc to believe in peronism as a way to socialism. Peronismo is not politization, is far from that, is demagogia, is utilization, is propaganda, is the leader and the masses manipulated, at least is not authentic politization since they in fact get rights but from the top to the bottom and no otherwise, as gifts but not conquests, but this youth, from where the Ks come, didnt see it.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Brady; To conclude: The aim of all this chameleon-like political activity is ,of course,the perpetuation of Peronism in power. Bringing with it job security for the party militants and assorted "fellow travelers" Plus all kinds of excesses and detriments to the country's growth e.g. over protectionism in the economy,over politization of the legislative and judicial systems.excessive growth of public sector employment, monolithic political thought in many cultural and intellectual areas To say nothing of immense wealth and infuence wielding power to its inner circle..To deny this is not to understand Argentine reality of the last 70 years.

 

[Matt84]

Peronism was, and still is, argentine keynesianism. And it was a great mistake from the left, the 1960s left, not the original, from the 30s or so, this was a different left, idealistic young people inspired in french may, in hippism, in the cuban revolution, etc to believe in peronism as a way to socialism.

From your post it seems you understand what Peronism is quiet well, then why do you find this belief so unjustified?

It's a National (and popular) way to Socialism.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

No es de Ayer. Peron died in 1974:
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Domingo_Perón

The issues with industry began with Videla whose plan was to destroy it to destroy Peronism.

Menem helped to continue destroying the industry.

This administration made a big effort to develop the industry.

Cuba? Really? His agent in Argentina while he was exile was fired because he insisted about that idea. Now we know that Cooke was a cuban secret agent.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_William_Cooke
http://www.cuspide.com/9789500749176/Fue+Cuba/

Peronism is anti comunism so, right, he was going to go to Cuba...
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tercera_posición

WTF are you talking about?