En Negro

[jp]

Every big business I've worked with works in the sizeable "grey" area between blanco and negro.

The only businesses I've heard of working 100% in blanco are those run by expats.

 

[Guillo]

Come on...jackass is so boring, I'm sure you could think of a better name to call me than that.

Sorry, but again...you, or anyone else that actually believes that your taxes are going to fix Buenos Aires issues is either high, stupid, or just in plain denial (your choice).

How about, Government CUTS taxes on businesses. Businesses in turn hire more people in blanco. Those newly employed people pay taxes on their income.

MORE PEOPLE WORKING EQUALS MORE REVENUE TO THE GOVT.

Have you noticed that you tend to insult everyone you don't agree with? Don't expect the rest to answer the same way as you do (i.e. an asshole).
Civil discussion is more productive.

Going back to the topic at hand... if business save money from taxes, guess where it would go...to their employees? No, to their pockets? Most likely. I don't buy that people skipping taxes do so to be able to pay their employees more, its usually to increase their own profits and ignore their legal obligations.

Myself, I'd rather be in blanco, have better access to credit, better health coverage, and more job stability, even if that means a sacrifice in the amount I get to put into my pocket. But to each their own, most people working in negro have no alternatives to do so, they do it mostly out of desperation and the employers take advantage of that.

 

[citygirl]

Guillo - with respect, my experience and fifs2 are different. I've had people leave for en negro positions because they wanted the money in their pocket today and didn't care about the legality or lack there of involved with working en negro. That extra few hundred pesos in their pocket meant a lot more to them than future retirement.

 

[jaredwb]

Have you noticed that you tend to insult everyone you don't agree with? Don't expect the rest to answer the same way as you do (i.e. an asshole).
Civil discussion is more productive.

Going back to the topic at hand... if business save money from taxes, guess where it would go...to their employees? No, to their pockets? Most likely. I don't buy that people skipping taxes do so to be able to pay their employees more, its usually to increase their own profits and ignore their legal obligations.

Myself, I'd rather be in blanco, have better access to credit, better health coverage, and more job stability, even if that means a sacrifice in the amount I get to put into my pocket. But to each their own, most people working in negro have no alternatives to do so, they do it mostly out of desperation and the employers take advantage of that.

Calling a stupid person stupid isn't an insult. All I hear from you and your little socialist, K-licking friends is anti-business rhetoric. You are 100% WRONG!! Any company with less tax burden WILL hire more employees and WILL of course make more money (more employees providing more services equals more revenue to the company). That extra money, sure, some will go to the owner (HE/SHE IS THE OWNER) and some will go to the workers that contribute to the company...again, clearly not you.

That's the point of having a company...PROFIT!! If it wasn't, why the hell would anyone put up with "workers" like you. Oh, should point out that without profit you would be without a job...evil companies trying to make money...damn them.

Companies (in Argentina) that pay in Negro do so because the tax burden is outrageous and it's robbery from your Government to provide the "services" that were defended earlier and of course to fund the ridiculous social programs.

It's pretty obvious if you read the post from last night that the K's have one goal. Kill business and have mindless drone workers that are all paid the same and income redistribution to lazy welfare families that would rather take their 8 kids to 9 de Julio to beg for coins in the middle of the street than work.

So, in a few years when Argentina has a more severe collapse then 2001 and you are all your "worker" buddies are banging your pots and pans in front of the banks and throwing rocks at the cops...remember, your group mentality and mindless support of a horrible President (alive and dead) was the cause...NOT business.

Oh, and for the record, I've been called more names on this site for my beliefs and political views than most anyone else so I'm not too concerned about insulting someone else. If you take anything on this site personally, maybe you should go join the warm and fuzzy friends forum.

 

[notebook.fix]

The most depressing part is that most here just come to argue socialist idealism vs capitalism..it's like we are being dragged back 50 years.

Even if we take the tax $$ burden out of the picture, the torturous paper work hell & time waste that this Gov forces on a business is alone a strong disincentive to start a business. WHo'd want to employ anyone here? You'd have to be suicidal... I know a person who made the mistake of hiring a maid...he was lamenting to me the other day that this is the first time in his life that he's had any legal problems...he came to invest money, start a business & raise a family...he was in love with Argentina...now he has to sell up & leave the country. How can all this be good for employing more people????

Calling a stupid person stupid isn't an insult. All I hear from you and your little socialist, K-licking friends is anti-business rhetoric. You are 100% WRONG!! Any company with less tax burden WILL hire more employees and WILL of course make more money (more employees providing more services equals more revenue to the company). That extra money, sure, some will go to the owner (HE/SHE IS THE OWNER) and some will go to the workers that contribute to the company...again, clearly not you.

That's the point of having a company...PROFIT!! If it wasn't, why the hell would anyone put up with "workers" like you. Oh, should point out that without profit you would be without a job...evil companies trying to make money...damn them.

Companies (in Argentina) that pay in Negro do so because the tax burden is outrageous and it's robbery from your Government to provide the "services" that were defended earlier and of course to fund the ridiculous social programs.

It's pretty obvious if you read the post from last night that the K's have one goal. Kill business and have mindless drone workers that are all paid the same and income redistribution to lazy welfare families that would rather take their 8 kids to 9 de Julio to beg for coins in the middle of the street than work.

So, in a few years when Argentina has a more severe collapse then 2001 and you are all your "worker" buddies are banging your pots and pans in front of the banks and throwing rocks at the cops...remember, your group mentality and mindless support of a horrible President (alive and dead) was the cause...NOT business.

Oh, and for the record, I've been called more names on this site for my beliefs and political views than most anyone else so I'm not too concerned about insulting someone else. If you take anything on this site personally, maybe you should go join the warm and fuzzy friends forum.

 

[French jurist]

The most depressing part is that most here just come to argue socialist idealism vs capitalism..it's like we are being dragged back 50 years.

Agreed, although your understanding of the word "socialism" is very American (not a critic, it's just cultural : I recall that right after BO got elected, the number 1 search on Google was the word Socialism).
All, if not most of European countries have two main political mainstreams( but you know that of course, just to explain) : a left (socialism, social-democrats, whatever) and the right (conservatives, etc).

Not like in the US where it's more balanced in-between a center-right and an "hard" right (Republicans).

Socialism is not antinomic with Capitalism (at least from an European POV).

Anyway, I wonder if there's any Capitalist country left in the world (the US are not one anymore since they saved the arshes of the banks : privatizing profits, communautarizing risks... !)

A French humorist once said (Coluche if I recall) : "Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man, and Communism is just the opposite"

As for the debate about equality. Equality is of course a sweet dream (put 10 people on a desert island with the same amount of money, come back 10 years later and you'll have a rich guy and a bumb).

Equity is much more important and is too often missing in our modern societies.

 

[Guillo]

Citigirl, I know that case exists. That's why I said "myself"
But not everyone is happy working in negro. Some will give priority to cash on hand, others will be also interested in the rest.

 

[citygirl]

Agreed, I just was pointing out that there are quite a few employees who have the option to be en blanco but instead prefer en negro - obviously not the case for you.

 

[Guillo]

Calling a stupid person stupid isn't an insult.

Ok, in that case it shoudn't be an insult if I call you an asshole.
Either that or a troll, not sure. Where is Cabrera when one needs him/her!

All I hear from you and your little socialist, K-licking friends is anti-business rhetoric.

Sorry, but I never defended the K government. Being left leaning doesn't imply a defense of the K government.

There's a reason for the anti-business rhetoric: people got tired of being exploited by someone that believes that because he has some cash owns the world, can bend any and all the rules and laws and everyone should be licking at their boots.

Companies (in Argentina) that pay in Negro do so because the tax burden is outrageous and it's robbery from your Government to provide the "services" that were defended earlier and of course to fund the ridiculous social programs.

Of course. Let a couple millions die while you go to sail to the Caribbean with some whores and a bunch of coke (not the soda).

The fact that the Ks are a bunch of thieves doesn't change that workers here have RIGHTS that you have to respect. Just as important as yours. Just because you have the cash doesn't mean you are any better than the employees working under you. Perhaps you are too used to the "republican" way. Go back to the US already and try to make a business there. Why did even come here?

It's pretty obvious if you read the post from last night that the K's have one goal. Kill business and have mindless drone workers that are all paid the same and income redistribution to lazy welfare families that would rather take their 8 kids to 9 de Julio to beg for coins in the middle of the street than work.

I doubt they even have a goal besides becoming robbing more money and having more power.

Oh, and for the record, I've been called more names on this site for my beliefs and political views than most anyone else so I'm not too concerned about insulting someone else. If you take anything on this site personally, maybe you should go join the warm and fuzzy friends forum.

Well, for what I've read so far you are the first one to start insulting people who contradicts you in any way. Its natural that they will react.

I was expecting some sincere discussion, not someone yelling at my face refusing to listen or accept any other point of view as valid. Worse case, I'll just put you in my ignore list like I did with Lucas and a some others. Really, not much of value is lost but your total disconnect from reality.

Perhaps you need a blog to post your illuminated thinking, as you don't seem to be comfortable with the exchange happening at forums.

 

[Guillo]

Agreed, I just was pointing out that there are quite a few employees who have the option to be en blanco but instead prefer en negro - obviously not the case for you.

Its hard to put number on this, but I'd guess that most (not all) of the "en negro" work is on the lower income group. As you raise in salaries, and responsibilities, less and less will prefer some cash on hand and not the benefits that come from an "en blanco" position.
On the higher salaries / responsibilities, what you might see (also on some, not all the companies) is a basic "en blanco" part and some "en negro" cash to improve the pay. But the employees get their health insurance and other legal benefits.