Esma

[Phryne]

Well someone eventually answered the phone and provided a different number to book a guided visit. The recorded message just asks one to email [email protected].

Will keep trying and hope I eventually receive a response...

Tom, I agree that it's a very dark place, and probably not something most people would or should add to their list of things to do in Buenos Aires.

Sonia

 

[Carlota]

30.000 people were murdered and disappear under the military dictatorship and 'that' place is one of the most notorious but not the unique and also one of the most sinister, many of the children of the 'desaparecidos' were born there.

Los familiares de los desaparecidos investigados por la CONADEP tienen derecho a recibir como indemnización US$220.000 de nuestros impuestos en carácter no reintegrable. Para cobrar la indemnización, se presentaron menos de 9 mil personas, y ello lo puede corroborar cualquier ciudadano.

!!!!

I worked for 1 year at the Fundacion de Madres... so disappointing... It's just business & dirty politics.

I know, just 1 death should be enough, but twisting numbers like that is just dishonest and misleading.

I believe that this government has done a good job to heal some wounds and bring justice, but I also regret seeing how many are making $$$ of such a cruel period in our country's history.

 

[Matt84]

I know, just 1 death should be enough, but twisting numbers like that is just dishonest and misleading.

Yes, one death is enough. Thanks for your input, do you have any more experiences that can shine more light on the subject?

I find it that exaggeration does lead to repetition of history (like a a self fulfilled prophecy) or to revisionism.

So what is the most objective thing you'd say to someone asking about the Dirty War,

Gracias

 

[HenryNisental]

To French jurist: if you doubt my figures about the crimes commited by the terrorists, I can offer the complete list (they are exactly 1502, including a 6 month baby, and many women too). Besides, I think you were not living here during that period (and I did), so your comments are the ones twisted by the left wing rethoric.
Regarding the Jews, I am one of them too, and nobody bothered me at that time for that reason only. The problem was was that many of my brethmen were left- wing extremists, and out of proportion to the general populace.
I may be glad to clarify anything you need to know, if you ask me by PM´s

 

[Carlota]

So what is the most objective thing you'd say to someone asking about the Dirty War,

Gracias

I would say that those left-wing kids were as brainwashed as those young military guys, blinded by fanaticism the same way those Taliban kids and young US soldiers do... Just stupid. Both sides thought they were serving their country.

It is obvious that the military went overboard, just as the other side (montoneros, etc.) did. Only difference is that the armed forces were in power and they abused it, which makes it more despicable.

I believe the big players from both sides should be trialed and jailed and that we should put this all behind.

 

[Ries]

Arguing about the exact number of deaths?

Unbelievable.

I highly recommend a visit to the Parque de la Memoria, on the Costanera Norte- where there are thousands and thousands of names inscribed, in a beautiful and moving memorial right on the river.
Every day, there are people crying and leaving flowers for lost relatives and friends- try telling them it was "only" X number of thousands, and therefore somehow not so terrible...

I have met several Argentine expats in the USA who will never go home, because of the Dirty War, and the lost friends from it- and, remember, many, many of the disappeared were students, very young. An entire generation were scarred.
Its easy to overlook it now, in Argentina, as so many people were born after it happened, and have no personal memories, but bean counting over exact numbers aside, it was a terrible thing, and something worth remembering.

 

[mariano-BCN]

Henry, you're an ignorant, I would suggest to read about the active anti-Semitism of the Junta: they killed Jews because they were convinced of the "Plan Andina", an Argentinean version of the "Books of Sion", which said that Israel and Jews in general were about to "conquer" Patagonia. Therefore they didn't want Jews in strategic like the Centro de INvestigacion Nuclear, where 11 employees with a Jewish background were killed just because of their background, or read about the family Tarnopolsky, or the many occasions in which officers warned Argentina about the "Attacks of communism and zionism against Argentina". The persecution of Jews and special cruel treatment Jewisch desaparecidos were given has been documented in the Conadep's Nunca Mas, the document of Cosofam from Barcelona and the publication of de Daia 3 years ago.
Shame on you, inform before you talk nonsense!

 

[HenryNisental]

Frenchy: first of all do not insult me, becausse if there is something I am not is ignorant, since I lived thru the process. Second,I have the two volumes published by the DAIA. I do not deny the anti-semitism of our armed forces. In fact, one of my relatives, an uncle named Alberto (now deceased) was booted out of the Air Force Flight Training school in Cordoba years ago.
Since he could not "hide" his Jewish origins during the physical exam, he was single out for expulsion. One day they planted a single (?) stolen boot under his pillow, it was found (of course), and he was expelled from it. But the military NEVER killed any Jew becausse of his religion only, (otherwise I would be dead, wouldn´t I), as far as I know.
What you and the lot like you seem to be blind to the atrocities commited by these bands of criminals masked as patriots. Again, I can provide YOU with the list of THE 1502 persons killed by them, WHAT ABOUT IT?
Regarding antisemitism in the armed forced, you seem to forget the Dreyfuss case in France, and many like it in the USA and other countries.

 

[French jurist]

Frenchy: first of all do not insult me, becausse if there is something I am not is ignorant

I would never insult you and you are referring to the previous message which is not from me. (my own answer will follow shortly, estoy a full de trabajo!).

 

[dr__dawggy]

When I read your post Henry Nisental I thought "wow, who's is capable to write such inaccurate nonsense? For years it was this country has been indifferent to the suffering of families of the victims of the Junta but now it's been in a prices of self depuration and the rejection of the Junta and it's civilians troops is common sense, even the rightwing candidates are suddenly supporting human rights ngo's. Only ignorants, liars en cheaters are still wondering around with posts liker yours.

Which parts of Henry's post were inaccurate? The total number of disappeared? Did he falsely claim that an independent investigation without denying there might have been more deaths put the number at closer to 8,000 rather than 30,000? Did he lie about the number of deaths caused by the montoneros and other radical leftist groups, whose actions set in motion the tragic events that led to the militares take over and their subsequent brutality?

His post did not deny that a tragedy took place...rather it placed these events in historic and numerical perspective......

The one area where I thought Henry over reached was blaming Nestor K. for the 30,000 number....that number was around before Nestor and is incidentally the same number attributed to Chile under Pinochet.

None of this justifies the actions of the military during this dark time....but it does a disservice to the victims to fail to honestly look at what led up to the regime's take over...toward the end of taking steps to ensure a similar tragedy does not take place again.