European Visa/residency Question

[Killarney]

The reason it is not being fought is because it is just as easy to go around. Go to another EU country and live there for a short time and then go to the Netherlands. Boom problem solved.

So it's either that or take the Dutch government to court and win like 2 years later. Which would you choose?

Many member states do not enjoy obeying EU law and fight it at every step. But if they've signed the treaties then they must obey.

 

[Patagone]

How narrowminded. Not a single case has been won. For the majority of people it is not easy just to move abroad for 6-10+ months, or however longer it takes to get through all local bureaucracy. Belgium has had so many people due to this, that they are now actively discouraging it. Spanish local authorities create waiting times of many months before a first appointment etc.

Maybe you are not aware, but some people actually have jobs, most of them tied to a specific location. Most people will not have the finances to just quit their job and move abroad. Try to find another job in Spain, yeah right. A rock or a hard place. Boom.

I am so tired of this arrogant 'if it's easy for me, why don't you just do it as well' mentality.

 

[lucha54]

Patagone we're thinking to work the season in Ibiza or somewhere else in the Baleares ... an Argy friend with EU passport just went in July and was making 1200 Euro (+ tips) per month waiting tables... It's a place where the work is plentiful and not hard to find for just the season. It IS easy if you already have papers and the flexibility in your life (already working freelance or are in a situation where you can get up and go for a few months), same with working ski seasons or other seasonal/tourist places no matter how bad the economy is in Spain or wherever. I don't see it as exploitative, nor a 'pipe dream'.

I'm realizing it might take 6-10 months to get my partner's papers sorted over there but maybe the first time year we go, we put that time in to get it sorted and then thereafter live a bi-continental lifestyle working the seasons ... hoping it doesn't offend you...

 

[DontMindMe]

Patagone we're thinking to work the season in Ibiza or somewhere else in the Baleares ... an Argy friend with EU passport just went in July and was making 1200 Euro (+ tips) per month waiting tables... It's a place where the work is plentiful and not hard to find for just the season. It IS easy if you already have papers and the flexibility in your life (already working freelance or are in a situation where you can get up and go for a few months), same with working ski seasons or other seasonal/tourist places no matter how bad the economy is in Spain or wherever. I don't see it as exploitative, nor a 'pipe dream'.

I'm realizing it might take 6-10 months to get my partner's papers sorted over there but maybe the first time year we go, we put that time in to get it sorted and then thereafter live a bi-continental lifestyle working the seasons ... hoping it doesn't offend you...

A bi-continental lifestyle working the seasons sounds amazing! If you can make it happen, more power to you. Patagone needs to take a chill pill.

 

[Patagone]

Patagone we're thinking to work the season in Ibiza or somewhere else in the Baleares ... an Argy friend with EU passport just went in July and was making 1200 Euro (+ tips) per month waiting tables... It's a place where the work is plentiful and not hard to find for just the season. It IS easy if you already have papers and the flexibility in your life (already working freelance or are in a situation where you can get up and go for a few months), same with working ski seasons or other seasonal/tourist places no matter how bad the economy is in Spain or wherever. I don't see it as exploitative, nor a 'pipe dream'.

I'm realizing it might take 6-10 months to get my partner's papers sorted over there but maybe the first time year we go, we put that time in to get it sorted and then thereafter live a bi-continental lifestyle working the seasons ... hoping it doesn't offend you...

That will be great, enjoy! I have been fortunate to live and work location-independent for over a decade, which is wonderful. If you have the opportunity, take it!

 

[Flay]

I notice you say you're considering the UK, but unfortunately in the UK, non-EU spouses do NOT qualify for automatic residency. It is dependant on financial status - basically the British (or EU) half of the marriage has to be earning a minimum income of 20,000 pounds a year to be able to bring a spouse to the country.

This is the main reason my partner and I are staying in Argentina. I'm British, but if I wanted to take my Argentine partner to the UK to live, I would have to go there first, find a job that met the minimum income requirements and then start the application process, which would mean living apart from each other for quite a long time.

It's a controversial law and human rights groups are appealing against it, but so far the courts have upheld the government's decision.

We've tentatively considered Spain as an alternative, but we're put off by the high unemployment. I could get work as an English teacher but if there are no jobs for young Spaniards, I'm worried there's unlikely to be much work for a young Argentine.

 

[Killarney]

It doesn't take 6 months to organize. I'll be moving to Spain in January with my non-eu partner.

Patagone chill. The very specific case you talk about ONLY relates to Dutch nationals. For example if I want to live in Amsterdam tomorrow with my non-EU partner I can go. Nothing stops me.

It has been fought in the courts and is continuing to be fought. The current state of play is that Dutch nationals can live in another EU state for no less that 3 months before moving to Holland. You don't need to be economically active just live together in whatever EU state you want for 3 months then go.

The whole purpose of the thread was moving from one place to another. How are people moving to another country tied to a job? They are moving to another place to get a job.
So for the very very specific case of Dutch nationals wishing to bring a non-EU spouse into Holland. Save up a few thousand and rent a little apt in Spain on the beach for 3 months and then book your tickets to Holland. All citizens of the other 27 member states book your ticket to Amsterdam and enjoy the weed.

These member state laws trying to restrict the free movement of EU citizens or their families has it's roots in the extreme right, euro-skeptic, anti-immigration parties.

Mr. Cameron catering to UKIP for example is trying to cut EU immigration which is one of the cornerstones of the EU. It's not going to happen. Germany said yesterday that if the UK wants to cut immigration it would be better if they left the EU. I am inclined to agree!

 

[Flay]

The very specific case you talk about ONLY relates to Dutch nationals. For example if I want to live in Amsterdam tomorrow with my non-EU partner I can go. Nothing stops me.

You can't go to the UK. Not unless your non-EU partner gets EU citizenship somewhere else in the EU first. There are Brits all over the world who, like me, cannot go home to their own country because of this terribly unfair law.

I'm not sure how literally you mean it when you said that all that was necessary was to turn up at the airport with a copy of EU law. Clearly if you do that the immigration officer will laugh in your face. I guess what you mean is that you could, at great expense, hire a lawyer to try to argue your case. That's what many people have been trying to do for the past two years, but despite the support of some of the best human rights lawyers in the country, the most recent decision went in favour of the government. It's being appealed, but it's going to be a long journey. Also, the whole appeal against the law is based on the argument that it contravenes the right to family life as set out in the European Human Rights Act. The UK government is now considering opting out of the human rights act, so we might be screwed.

I'm not sure how literally you meant it when you said that all that was necessary was to turn up at the airport with a printed copy of EU laweople should turn up at the airport brandishing a piece of paper with EU law on it.

 

[lucha54]

It doesn't take 6 months to organize. I'll be moving to Spain in January with my non-eu partner.

Killarney does you non-EU partner intend to work en blanco in Spain during the initial period after your move?
I know that you can bring a non-EU partner legally but that you have to file lots of paperwork once you are there and I'm not clear on when the non-EU partner can legally work....

 

[Killarney]

Look, any member state can make any law they want but at end of the day if it contravenes EU law it is illegal full stop.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27885818/complaint/eeafp/done/UKVisaComplaintOct2012.pdf

The UK is a big offender. The EU law is clear that any EU citizen has the right to full movement within the EU and also has the right for his direct family to join him/her.

The Dutch law for example is sneaky as it ONLY applies to Dutch citizens. Why is this? Because the EU law states that the EU citizens have the right to full movement yet this does not apply to the Dutch citizen because he is not actually moving! Ridiculous. In this case the couple lives in another country in the EU for 3 months then technically they are "moving" within the EU and must be let in. Again ridiculous.

The UK is plain and simple in full violation of the law end of story, see link above. So what are you supposed to do about it?

Once again these "laws" are illegal and are due to rising anti-EU and anti-immigration sentiment in the UK and Holland. It's a shame really.

You need to assume that most border agents are not the highest educated people. Also assuming your spouse does not need a tourist visa to enter. Enter the country as a tourist and once inside apply for residency. Do not give all your plans upon arriving.

Do the permatourists tell the border guard what they are doing?

I have lived with my non-EU partner the last year in Portugal and we had no marriage docs, and only had been living together one year. How was she legal the entire time? I know the laws and I use them.

For Spain I will be getting legal residency for my non EU partner after her initial 3 month tourist visa expires and this will be a spousal visa.

I should start an immigration services company because there is ALWAYS a way if you look hard enough even when the member states are doing illegal things.