European Visa/residency Question
- Thread starter lucha54
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You could get residency easy there but compared to Spain it is pretty boring. Lived in the Algarve. Nice beaches but really only busy for July and August. Other than that it's a good destination if you are 80. Instead of the city that never sleeps we called our city the city that never woke up.
Drove through Spain from the Portuguese border all the way up to Valencia. The Costa del Sol is incredibly built up. I knew it was built up but it is headspinning. It is pretty much solid beach resorts for 200km. Then takes a break near Almeria and starts again in Torrevieja up to Valencia. Go inland tiny bit and you get the Sierra Nevada which is incredible.
Spain has pretty much everything it's just a shame the economy is so crap. But from what I hear toursim is picking up big time.
Drove through Spain from the Portuguese border all the way up to Valencia. The Costa del Sol is incredibly built up. I knew it was built up but it is headspinning. It is pretty much solid beach resorts for 200km. Then takes a break near Almeria and starts again in Torrevieja up to Valencia. Go inland tiny bit and you get the Sierra Nevada which is incredible.
Spain has pretty much everything it's just a shame the economy is so crap. But from what I hear toursim is picking up big time.
I've been to Lisboa and thought it was lovely but not sure if I would want to stay there long term / work there! Most likely if we do go over to EU would be to work some touristic/ seasonal jobs in Spain... at the very least I could teach English and/or keep working online.
Just saw this topic. While I am new on this forum, I am a 'veteran' expat with multiple citizenships and residence permits (some current, others had when I needed them). If you are interested in Spain I have first hand experience. I also have first hand experience with de facto relationships (same sex in my case) and residence permits in the EU, including Poland, where same-sex marriage is constitutionally banned, and other countries. Some responses on this thread are correct while others may be outdated, based on incorrect interpretation and perhaps also someone's unfortunate experience with immigration officials who did not interpret the EU law correctly. If anyone is interested it is easier to discuss this in person in a social setting (over coffee for example). I am very passionate about the topic as it location-independent living and economic freedom have been my hobby for the past 10 years in several countries. In a mean time, I want to pint out that every EU member country must apply EU law when it comes to immigration of family members of EU citizens (as opposed to the national law governing immigration). At the same time (and this is very important for the same sex couples) every EU country has the right to define 'family' as there is no (not yet) EU-wide definition of a family (except for immigration purposes, and even in this case it can get slightly complicated, but it will work in every EU country, even Italy). It happens of course that immigration officers avoid applying EU law over national law when they can, often ask for documents which the potential immigrant (family member) cannot possibly provide, use ambiguous language, etc. In the end, if you inform yourself well, and sometimes with a help of a lawyer, you WILL get a residence permit (initially for 5 years) for your non-EU family member (which can be a de-facto partner or 'other' family member). Another thing I want to point out in case of Spain is that yes, by law, your partner's case must be resolved in 90 days. In practice this is not the case and expect to wait up to a year (6 months in Barcelona), but do not worry because once the paperwork is accepted, you WILL get a paper document which immediately grants your partner the rights of a family members of the EU citizens (who may or may not be Spanish citizens, it is not important as the law does not distinguish). Anyway, lots of luck and I hope you enjoy your journey through the immigration labyrinths. If anyone needs more info or simply enjoys chatting about the topic, let me know, I am always up for a chat!
Told you it was possible Lucha......
I tried to explain the difference between EU and national here without success.
To clarify Idois you stated that it takes up to a year to formally process the residency in Spain and get the official residency document but once you have submitted all the correct documents then your spouse immediately receives a temporary doc giving him/her all EU family rights?
If I understood that correctly it is indeed good news.
Does the Argentine certificado de covivencia help in that regard I wonder? Otherwise I will just be using rental contracts and letters.
I tried to explain the difference between EU and national here without success.To clarify Idois you stated that it takes up to a year to formally process the residency in Spain and get the official residency document but once you have submitted all the correct documents then your spouse immediately receives a temporary doc giving him/her all EU family rights?
If I understood that correctly it is indeed good news.
Does the Argentine certificado de covivencia help in that regard I wonder? Otherwise I will just be using rental contracts and letters.
Here are the steps for doing this in Barcelona: The EU citizen must first get registered as residing in Barcelona (certificado de registro de residencia comunitaria). You (the EU citizen) then make an appointment at the extranjeria where you as EU citizen (now registered as residing officially in Barcelona) will file on behalf of your non-EU partner for a temporary residence permit issued in Spain but valid for the EU (this is important), called a 'residence card for a family member of EU citizen' (Tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión, Régimen Comunitario). This last part (régimen comunitario) is what grants your non-EU family member freedom of movement as defined in the Schengen Border Code and articles of the EU law which govern the free movement of EU citizens and their family members. When you file this you must show that you as EU citizen legally reside in Barcelona (you will have your certificado de registro de residencia comunitaria and other documents, such as volante de padron for example, more about this at another time), economic means (double than of monthly minimal wage in Spain, which you can check online but it comes to approximately 800 eur/month for a family of 2), and proof of your 'family' ties to the non-EU partner. Your non-EU partner must also show proof of health insurance valid for Spain (I recommend you get it in Spain, from Sanitas for example, as it is 30-35 euros/month). Now, the key is showing economic means that will satisfy the interviewing immigration officer as this is left vague in the Spanish law as to what constitutes sufficient economic means. Next comes the proof of your ties to your partner. Any document from abroad you may have that is not a marriage certificate, civil union certificate or certificate of registered partnership (such as acta/certificado de convivencia) is not necessary because you can get this done in Barcelona by notary public for 30 euros (a contract that establishes that you two are a de facto couple or pareja de hecho), and by Catalan law, the immigration office cannot question this document, which, by the way cannot specify the time you two have been a couple (hence the officials must assume that it has been minimum of 2 years). You do not need witnesses for this document. You also do not need to be married to your partner at any point. If the immigration officer/official at the extranjeria accepts your documents, you will get a copy of your application now stamped with a date and number (if your documents are not accepted you should be given in writing what is missing and by what date you must bring it in). Once your non-EU partner receives his/her card, the date on the card will be backdated to the date of acceptance of your documents. If your non-EU partner has previously gotten his NIE (número de identidad de extranjero), the residence card will be linked to this number (if not, s/he will be issues one at the time the residence card is issued; I would get the NIE first, and this is another topic, happy to discuss with you how to do this). You now wait. This stamped document serves you of course if you need to justify your partner's legal presence in the EU (especially if his 90 days are up on his 'tourist's entry', but in reality, especially if you both speak Spanish (and even better Catalan), nobody will ever ask you for it. Eventually your case will get resolved (probably 90 days or so) and your non-EU partner will be called in for fingerprinting and a photo (it takes another few weeks to a month to get this appointment). That same day he is given another paper (more like a semi-hard paper slip) which serves while his actual card is being 'manufactured' (which takes another month or two). Therefore, from the moment of acceptance of all your documents until the issuance of the actual plastic card (which your non-EU partner will have yet another appointment for, this time in local police station for pick-up, hence another month or so of waiting time), your non-EU partner can exercise some of the rights granted to the family members of the EU citizens. I say 'some' rights because without the actual card it may be difficult on the actual spot and in the moment to practically grant him/her a benefit (more on this in person). If in this whole process you and especially your non-EU partner wishes to leave the Schengen zone, there is challenge which you must overcome not to incur interruption and potential cancellation of your application. Same is true once your partner has the residence permit - any absence from the EU (there are exceptions) can result in the loss of the residence permit. More about this and how to overcome this at another time. In summary, yes you can do this in Spain, and yes it will take time. Yes, your partner who is Spanish speaking can probably get a job under the table without this card and even with this card there is no guarantee that s/he will find legal work, but you know this, it is like this anywhere in the world, more-less, do not get discouraged. Here's another important issue I would consider before embarking on this: if you even remotely consider doing this in Barcelona and neither one of you speaks Catalan and especially you as EU-citizen granting this privilege to your non-EU partner do not speak Spanish well enough to navigate the system on your own (remember please that official documents in Catalunya are in Catalan by default now and in Spanish only by request), I would think twice about doing this on my own if I were you. I did it alone thanks to the language ability in both languages, but do not worry, there are law firms which will do this for you (100 euros or less in uncomplicated case of family members of Spanish/EU citizens). Anything else please ask and if anyone is interested we can chat in person as well!
To answer your question specifically, if you are EU citizen, your partner (de facto, registered, non-registered, spouse, conyuge, etc) has rights as a family member of the EU citizen even before arriving at the Schengen border check. Practically, if your non-EU partner is joining you in the EU and does not have a valid Schengen visa (if s/he needs it), there is a legal protocol for granting him/her a visa at the border (free of charge) if s/he can prove 'family' ties to you, the EU citizen. Therefore, every step of the way, with appropriate documents (and you do not exclusively need certificado de convivencia, but it can be helpful, among other documents), your non-eu 'partner' and 'family member' can exercise the rights that govern his/her movement as family member of the EU citizen.
ajoknoblauch
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Please learn paragraphing.
I don't care that you don't paragraph!! I LOVE IT!! LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!! THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOO MUCH!! Amazing.
If we do go through this process (or I guess I should say it's a matter of when)we might do it in the Baleares, although if it requires staying there for long periods of time (i.e. up to 6 months or more) we may opt to get settled somewhere else first and do it from one of the mainland cities.
I speak good enough Spanish (although don't know how I will fare understanding the Spaniard accent) so that shouldn't be a problem.
Just had one question about this part:
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]" If your non-EU partner has previously gotten his NIE (número de identidad de extranjero), the residence card will be linked to this number (if not, s/he will be issues one at the time the residence card is issued; I would get the NIE first, and this is another topic, happy to discuss with you how to do this)."[/background]
Just had one question about this part: I read about getting an NIE and I thought it was something I had to do when/if I move. But for me as an EU-passport-holder, I don't need to get this NIE? If you don't want to elaborate here we can discuss this in person.
If we do go through this process (or I guess I should say it's a matter of when)we might do it in the Baleares, although if it requires staying there for long periods of time (i.e. up to 6 months or more) we may opt to get settled somewhere else first and do it from one of the mainland cities.
I speak good enough Spanish (although don't know how I will fare understanding the Spaniard accent) so that shouldn't be a problem.
Just had one question about this part:
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]" If your non-EU partner has previously gotten his NIE (número de identidad de extranjero), the residence card will be linked to this number (if not, s/he will be issues one at the time the residence card is issued; I would get the NIE first, and this is another topic, happy to discuss with you how to do this)."[/background]
Just had one question about this part: I read about getting an NIE and I thought it was something I had to do when/if I move. But for me as an EU-passport-holder, I don't need to get this NIE? If you don't want to elaborate here we can discuss this in person.
