Expats not happy, why stay?

[HotYogaTeacher]

Stan and Bob are both dead on. !st, people don't read forums to be given a rose colored view, they read them to get an understanding and thank goodness there is balance available. (I agree people could be a little more gentle in their expression) There is no paradise that is suited for everyone. I know people who love living here and people who hate it and everywhere in between.

Given the fact that it costs many thousands of dollars to move to another continent, that people may have given up jobs, homes, and other necessities to relocate here, may since have experienced financial loss, etc, any number of things could have happened, not everyone is free to just pick and leave. I know a number of people who feel "stuck" here and so please don't say things like, "just go home". Not everyone can, at least right now, and if they are willing to share their experience with someone in the hope that the person will avoid making the same mistakes they feel they made, then let them.

I too find that much of what I dislike about BsAs we have encountered in trying to start a business, buy and remodel a home, etc. We are not rich and did not come here to party all the time and eat in fancy restaurants. In fact, the night life doesn't interest us in the least and we don't like the food. We have not been out all night once since moving. We don't think it's cheap. We don't think it's sophisticated. We don't think it's beautiful - I'm too busy trying not to break my ankle on the broken pavers and avoiding huge steaming piles of dog poop to even look at all the architecture.

We love our apartment and our expat friends but the disonnect culturally here between and Americans and Argentines is very wide. There is not a shared understanding. People don't even know what we mean when we talk about some of the differences. There are some great people here, but we don't understand them, and they don't understand us, and that is something important about life that you don't really completely appreciate until it is gone.

We have an Argie friend who loaned us his family's beach condo in San Bernardo. We are from San Diego. We got the bus, went there, got to the place and it was an apartment that would have been condemned in the states. It was filthy, the furniture was broken and in disrepair, the building, halls and such, were dirty and in disrepair, the beach itself was dirty and the restaurants were terrible, in addition to being expensive, the town was ugly and run down, but to our friend, it is paradise there. He thinks it is the most lovely place and he loves going there. The damp, ugly, dirty little place is his favorite place for vacation. We were glad we got to go because of the experience, and appreciative of our friend allowing us to use his family vacation home for free, but there is no way we could ever have a conversation with this friend about travel experiences and be talking the same language. He has no idea what we mean when we say we stayed somewhere beautiful or magical because San Bernardo is his guage for beautiful and magical. He gets all dreamy when he talks about it.

A note: our friend is educated and not poor. in Argentina his family is considered middle class. Many people we know here have expressed happiness for us when we told them we went there. The locals don't seem to know that it's an ugly, dirty, run down place.

I do know that it is all perspective. I have traveled the world and I can honestly say I have never been anyplace I was less charmed by. I love having this experience and I am not sad I came here. I will go home with a whole new understanding of the world and my place in it and some very strong language and coping skills, as well as some extremely good stories. Still, if you are not completely sure this place is right for you and you are not wealthy, don't move to Argentina. Getting stuck here is a hard thing for a lot of people.

Peace...

 

[RWS]

Goodness, "Hot", why ever did you move to Argentina? Had you no real acquaintance with the country (I don't mean a couple of two-week visits) before you moved? Or can you afford to go from place to place without knowing them?

 

[HDM]

Exactly, RWS. I find posts like Hot somewhere between weird and comical. Really. Who moves 7,000 miles to a place they obviously know very little about, thinking they are just going to start up a business, and then start bad-mouthing the place when things don't work out? Of course it didn't work out. There was no chance from the start. Switch this, and imagine what someone in San Diego would say to a Porteno who headed off to San Diego, not speaking much if any English, to "start up a business." The San Diegan would probably be thinking -- what kind of idiot does something like that? Someone who sells out of their life in one country and moves lock stock and barrel to another, with no language, with no way out if things go wrong, deserves what they get. I have no problem repeating the standard and always accurate axiom: if you hate the place you are, then leave. Life is too short to waste it hating where you are. Although maybe posts like these are just too sad to called comical.

 

[soulskier]

Put me down for another, "For what reasons did you originally move to BA?"

 

[ms1892]

We just arrived, so I won't bitch just yet (j/k).

But I want to assure you this is not unusual. I was rather active on a forum of the country we just left, and you will find the same thing: the same complaints, the same comments, the same "native" bashing & the same quest for peanut butter & cheerios (or which ever home comfort food one misses)....

Sounds familiar. By any chance did you ever live in the Czech Republic? The expat forum there is awful. This is like a sunny paradise by comparison.

 

[perry]

I believe that many fundamental points are being omited from this debate and the most valid one is why are we comparing our country and culture to our new one here in Argentina. Making valid comparisons without passing negative judgements is paramount here. It never ceases to amaze me that people will live here for 4 years and still bitch and moan about every thing under the sun. Dog shit, traffic, shoddy this and shoddy that ugly towns and bad food. These are all valid but in between those experiences there are tremendous positives as well . This is my list.

Great coffee shop experiences where you can dwell with just one cup for many hours without feeling rushed or pressured to vacate your table.
Nightlife that caters for all tastes that is as varied and vibrant as any other .
Freedom to express yourself and freedom to opiniate about politics and just about any subject without being censored and silenced.

Beautiful barrios and beautiful parks that cover most of the City of Buenos Aires . Colegiales, Belgrano, San Isidro. Acassuso and many other barrios are very leafy, quiet , clean and offer beautiful architecture and incredible trees . Buenos Aires has some of the most unique trees on the planet .

Regarding towns in Argentina I know over 20 that are gorgeous and incredibly clean . In the south of Argentina in Neuquen , Rio Negro Province they have some of the most pristine places anywhere.

Buenos Aires is a very large city with beauty and ugly side by side . It is up to us to choose our experience.

 

[steveinbsas]

Given the fact that it costs many thousands of dollars to move to another continent, that people may have given up jobs, homes, and other necessities to relocate here, may since have experienced financial loss, etc, any number of things could have happened, not everyone is free to just pick and leave. I know a number of people who feel "stuck" here and so please don't say things like, "just go home". Not everyone can, at least right now, and if they are willing to share their experience with someone in the hope that the person will avoid making the same mistakes they feel they made, then let them.

It doesn't necessarily cost "many thousands of dollars" to move to another continent. I flew into BA from Mexico on a frequent flier reward ticket in may of 2006 with my dog and two suitcases full of personal "stuff" (primarily photos and important papers).

I had to pay about $85 extra for my pup to fly with me (in the cabin) and another $100 for my first and (so far) only "special fee" in Argentina (to the EZE vet).

Do the math. That's less than $200 dollars...and just one more reason I call Buenos Aires a poor man's Paris.

I too find that much of what I dislike about BsAs we have encountered in trying to start a business, buy and remodel a home, etc. We are not rich and did not come here to party all the time and eat in fancy restaurants. In fact, the night life doesn't interest us in the least and we don't like the food. We have not been out all night once since moving. We don't think it's cheap. We don't think it's sophisticated. We don't think it's beautiful - I'm too busy trying not to break my ankle on the broken pavers and avoiding huge steaming piles of dog poop to even look at all the architecture.

Did you visit before the move? Please clear that up. 0ther posters have cautioned about falling in love with BA during a brief visit and then being bitterly disappointed. Was this the case for you?

I noticed the dog poop the first day I was here. That was in Palermo. Eventually, I bought an apartment in Recoleta where CLBA sweps the streets and sidewalks all day long, including the dog poop.

We love our apartment and our expat friends but the disonnect culturally here between and Americans and Argentines is very wide. There is not a shared understanding. People don't even know what we mean when we talk about some of the differences. There are some great people here, but we don't understand them, and they don't understand us, and that is something important about life that you don't really completely appreciate until it is gone.

Do I hear Joni Mitchell singing in the background?

We have an Argie friend who loaned us his family's beach condo in San Bernardo. We are from San Diego. We got the bus, went there, got to the place and it was an apartment that would have been condemned in the states. It was filthy, the furniture was broken and in disrepair, the building, halls and such, were dirty and in disrepair, the beach itself was dirty and the restaurants were terrible, in addition to being expensive, the town was ugly and run down, but to our friend, it is paradise there. He thinks it is the most lovely place and he loves going there. The damp, ugly, dirty little place is his favorite place for vacation. We were glad we got to go because of the experience, and appreciative of our friend allowing us to use his family vacation home for free, but there is no way we could ever have a conversation with this friend about travel experiences and be talking the same language. He has no idea what we mean when we say we stayed somewhere beautiful or magical because San Bernardo is his guage for beautiful and magical. He gets all dreamy when he talks about it.

A note: our friend is educated and not poor. in Argentina his family is considered middle class. Many people we know here have expressed happiness for us when we told them we went there. The locals don't seem to know that it's an ugly, dirty, run down place.

Yeesch! Your last sentence is a massive (if not offensive) generalization. I have been in enough Porteno apartments to know how clean they almost always are (even los pobres). You got what you paid for.

I do know that it is all perspective. I have traveled the world and I can honestly say I have never been anyplace I was less charmed by. I love having this experience and I am not sad I came here. I will go home with a whole new understanding of the world and my place in it and some very strong language and coping skills, as well as some extremely good stories. Still, if you are not completely sure this place is right for you and you are not wealthy, don't move to Argentina. Getting stuck here is a hard thing for a lot of people.

If you "can honestly say I have never been anyplace I was less charmed by" what kind of thought process led to your decision to move here?

"I love having this experience and I am not sad I came here" is not really consistent with the rest of your post. I only hope you don't get blindsided with a "money laundering" penalty when you sell your apartment. You may think you did everything legally, but there is still chance you didn't...or that the tax man will say so, even if you did.

Peace...

More Joni Mitchell...so to speak...or sing...


"I've looked at BA from both sides now..

....I really don't know BA at all."

PS: I followed your posts prior to your move here and even gave you advice regarding NOT bringing your truck here (which you heeded).I think you would have been better served to ask a lot more questions prior to moving here. I visited your blogs today and say your SO's art. It is wonderful!

I do hope you know that you need WRITTEN permission (i.e. an export license) to take artworks out of the country, even if they are your own creations.

I will be happy to give you all of the details without any charge if you like.

I am very sorry you have had such a bad experience here!

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

It's funny Stevo. I usually don't mind answering that question, and the answer is no secret amongst my friends, but truthfully, your posts are always so harsh and judgmental that I don't want to answer it for you. Perhaps someday when we are at a party together and I can see your warm smile, your caring concern, your curious wonderment, I will tell you the fascinating story of how I came to live in Buenos Aires.
Peace Brother Expat....

 

[syngirl]

Sounds like HotYogaTeacher not only didn't research BA before moving, didn't research the barrios before picking a place to set up the business, they also didn't read anything about San Bernardo before going on holiday there!!! Otherwise they would have known that it is NOT a town like Carilo or Mar de las Pampas or Gesell. It does not cater to the wealthy. It is a good town however IF you have young kids. The beach is great for taking your kids to, and there is a GREAT restaurant with an Asado del Asador the size of your thigh.

I'm sure when their friend talks about his fond memories in S.Bernardo he is not thinking about the same things HYT is thinking about -- he is thinking about the great times he's had spending time with his family there. We go to S.Bernardo a few times a year b/c the suegra still has an apartment there. It's not a town on par with coastal towns in Brasil or elsewhere, but it is within easy driving distance of a lot of the better places (we go to Pinamar and Carilo regularly for lunches etc) and there are nicer beaches if you know where to go. And there's really well-maintained tennis courts that are 1/3rd the price of the courts in BA. Sure it's not tops of our list, but we can't afford to go out of the country again this year.

And maybe HYT is missing that too -- most Argentines can't afford to take the entire family on a trip out of the country, even your "educated and not poor" ones. So they enjoy the coast, have fun with their family and in the very Argentine fashion they don't rely on the PLACE to make the good times, they rely on the PEOPLE. You can chalk that one up along with all those great things Pericles listed as reasons I love living here.

Another thing I love -- FREE classes offered in all the public parks -- for a city that doesn't have the money that you might find in San Diego for instance, they offer a tonne of free programmes, from cinema to step-aerobics, tai chi, tango, and yoga, all in the local parks.

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

It's interesting that you would take such a tone with someone you don't really know. The truth is there are many reasons we are here, but you will not know them. Of course, you don't really care either, to talk to someone deeply about the meaningful story of how their life unfolded. You only want to judge them for not being in your state of mind.

I am glad to have made you laugh though. A smile is always worth having spoken, a laugh twice so.

Peace Brother Expat...