Get ready for less imported products!

[lwfh]

Sorry, back to washing machines. BUY A LOCAL MACHINE. If you buy a fancy imported one (Ariston, for example) you will not be able to get the parts here.

Go for Drean, Longvie, Candy etc. You will be able to get a local washing machine repair guy to come and fix it when it breaks.

Sigh. Learned from experience there. We have a Longvie now. It is fine.

 

[John.St]

What is called "protectionism" in this thread is actually ISI - Import Substitution Industry.

You protect your budding industry with high tariffs, but that only works if the internal consumer market is big enough, which is why it works in Brasil with 203 million people and a growing middle class.

It has been tried in Argentina 2 or 3 times and failed every time, because the population is far too small for ISI. It has also been tried twice in Chile with disastrous results, again because of population size.

A typical result of ISI in a small population is reduced quality and higher prices, both caused by lack of competition.

 

[andrewjps]

Spot on John. (Although it is Import Substitution Industrialisation)

It's not a sustainable policy, and although the Kirchner era ISI is not the same as the problematic Peron era ISI, it could end up producing some of the same problems, just slower.

Although opening up the economy is not going to work either, as has been shown.

Some more innovative economic policies are needed from Kirchner and her pal Amado Boudou.

 

[scotttswan]

Sorry, back to washing machines. BUY A LOCAL MACHINE. If you buy a fancy imported one (Ariston, for example) you will not be able to get the parts here.

Go for Drean, Longvie, Candy etc. You will be able to get a local washing machine repair guy to come and fix it when it breaks.

Sigh. Learned from experience there. We have a Longvie now. It is fine.

Whirlpool also make washing machines here, so presumably their parts are "easy" to get.

 

[PastPerfect]

I 100% percent agree with you on this. The insurance problem was one of the main factors in us deciding to move.

How accessible is the free public healthcare here? Knock on wood, I haven't had any healthcare needs in the year that I've been here other than the occasional prescription. But a friend of mine sustained a head injury and was taken to the nearest emergency room, which happened to be at a private hospital. After staying the night there he was billed and the hospital tried to transfer him to a public hospital but they all refused to accept him. None of the public hospitals would take him. They all claimed to be full, or to lack the necessary medicine/equipment/what have you to treat him. That or they just didn't want to take on the risk of a foreigner with a head injury.

 

[Davidglen77]

Whirlpool also make washing machines here, so presumably their parts are "easy" to get.

I bought a Whirlpool refrigerator (made in Argentina) 2.5 years ago (cost $3.500 pesos) and it had 3 major problems already. It came broken the day I got it, it froze everything in the refrigerator and freezer, took them a week to send someone to fix it. About 1 year after that, it wouldn't start and didn't cool or freeze, had to pay for the repair $800 pesos (motor relay) because of course the warranty had expired a few days before, about 8 months ago it wouldn't cool at all, I went to the facebook Whirlpool Argentina page and put my complaint out about their crappy junk appliances. They sent a technician out to my apartment and charged me $400 pesos to change a fuse (which of course you can only get from Whirlpool)! I went ballistic and started blasting them on the facebook page, called them on the phone and cursed them out and they refunded me the $400 pesos. You really have to defend yourself here with these things or you WILL get robbed.

 

[Nicole_Ramirez]

I don't know about BA, but we have gone to the ER at the public hospital here a few times. Because it was a child he went right in, taken care of and left free of charge. We've taken our youngest for his shots. You wait in the line for immunizations, get it and leave. It's great.

Also when I had a problem with my eyes, I went to a private office and it cost me about $15.00 for the visit.

 

[MizzMarr]

How accessible is the free public healthcare here? Knock on wood, I haven't had any healthcare needs in the year that I've been here other than the occasional prescription. But a friend of mine sustained a head injury and was taken to the nearest emergency room, which happened to be at a private hospital. After staying the night there he was billed and the hospital tried to transfer him to a public hospital but they all refused to accept him. None of the public hospitals would take him. They all claimed to be full, or to lack the necessary medicine/equipment/what have you to treat him. That or they just didn't want to take on the risk of a foreigner with a head injury.

I think it depends on who you are, who you get at the hospital, and which hospital you go to. I had a friend who had an accident where he ended up breaking his pelvis, but got great treatment (and surgery) from the doctors in the public hospitals (granted, friend's mother is a doctor and put herself in touch with the staff, so there may have been a little more going on than just taking care of the patient).

Another acquaintance of mine recently had this to say about his public hospital experience: Got my first taste of public hospitals in Buenos Aires on Friday helping a neighbor. Let's just say that if you want an ambulance or to see a doctor or waiting rooms without urine on the floors, you should get yourself some private insurance. Found out 911 works but if you want to arrive in under an hour or two you're better off taking a taxi.

So, for what it's worth! experiences do vary. I personally have insurance, and when I haven't I've paid for consultations at private clinics (between 50-80 pesos) or out of pocket for dental work, but thankfully have never had anything serious happen to me.

 

[After5]

What is called "protectionism" in this thread is actually ISI - Import Substitution Industry.

You protect your budding industry with high tariffs, but that only works if the internal consumer market is big enough, which is why it works in Brasil with 203 million people and a growing middle class.

It has been tried in Argentina 2 or 3 times and failed every time, because the population is far too small for ISI. It has also been tried twice in Chile with disastrous results, again because of population size.

A typical result of ISI in a small population is reduced quality and higher prices, both caused by lack of competition.

Mercosur could provide a large enough market for import substitution. But its members would have to stop putting up tariff and nontariff barriers between themselves to make it work.

Giving a local producer a leg up with a 10% tariff advantage is one thing. But one sees too many examples in Argentina of poor quality products which evidently have no effective competition.

My wife says that it's impossible to find quality bath towels at any price, in Argentina's protected textile market. So we'll stock up on the next trip to the U.S., where towels are big, fluffy and cheap.

 

[John.St]

Spot on John. (Although it is Import Substitution Industrialisation)

It's not a sustainable policy, and although the Kirchner era ISI is not the same as the problematic Peron era ISI, it could end up producing some of the same problems, just slower.

That is absolutely correct.

A country can, however, use ISI - even with a (too) small population - to build its industry, provided it can force the new (and existing) industry to impose strong QA (Quality Assurance).

Then, when the products meet (forced) good standards, the industry is told to prepare for real competition and export expansion, cutting tariffs over a short period of time, e.g. 50% now, 45% in a year, 35 in two, 20 in three, 0 in four or five. Even better is to warn the industry, that in so-and-so many years the tariffs are cut to zero step by step - but then there is the coima problem

Turkey did this, including a deliberate/planned 40% inflation from 1980 to 2000/01 (the exchange rate went from 4:1 to 1,500,000:1) to pay for a huge extension of infrastructure. I saw it happen when I visited the country every year during the inflation/build up. At the beginning Turkey was very much backwards, more or less like than Argentina at its worst in 2001. Now it has a bustling industry and high growth rate of more than 6% annually before the crisis, rebounding to 7.3% growth with a reasonably low inflation (6.3%) in 2010.

http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...dim=country:TUR:ARG&ifdim=country&hl=en&dl=en

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html