Hate North Americans?

[fifilafiloche]

Thanks Pericles for sharing those distant sounds from a foreign culture.

What i fear with globalization is the desapearance of local cultures, which would make travelling pointless, since there would be no way to immerse yourself in different atmospheres. Already, most of the souvenirs you buy in touristic places are made in China. I sometimes regret the European Union for this specific reason. Crossing the spanish border coming from France, even 10 years ago, immediatly brought you to another world. Today, except for the language, clothes, shops, prices, musics are all very similar, standardised, sanitarised. I find it to be a sad reality. This is one of the reasons why i like South America. I can find a diversity we used to have a generation or two ago in Europe. Just like it reduced drasticly the number of species, globalization also reduces the number and diversity of cultures.

This would be one reason for me to "hate" the US. This success in growing the United States of the World, imposing moral, (un)ethical, commercial standards to finally get to a monotonous and uniformed little planet. Zillions of people without roots, savor, identity linked together by the lowest common multiple : basic instincts.

I dont wish this future for the children i wont make.

 

[gusgutier]

Remember that Evita Peron met her husband working as an "acompanante"...

Evita wasn´t an escort. She was an average radio actress and met Peron in a funds raising meeting for san Juan´s earthquke survivors. The nicknames like whore, yegua or phrases like " viva el cancer " were spred by opposites to her husband. However a childhood without father and coming very young to BA from province, there is no resource that shows she sold her body.

 

[Lucas]

Remember that Evita Peron met her husband working as an "acompanante"...

the once public lady became public First Lady. She was not the first and wont be the last lady to get social promotion/recognition by using her natural feminine assets, as unfair as it can seem for those who don t have the same power of attraction.

I hope this brings some thinking material for some preformated brains.

Fifilafiloche, before you start to shoot from the hip please read this comment written by Fabian in a forum with people that do not have a clue about this women life but only by what they saw and hear on the stage play of "Evita" from Andrew Lloyd Webber, that kind of "cliche" and a completely distorted stage play with reality is repeating and spreading itself by poor informed people as yourself, I'm not blaming you for that, only trying to change your attitude and knowledge towards this woman life so in the future you do not repeat the same mistake.
Please read part of this thread and what Fabian have to say about Eva Duarte de Peron (Evita)

Link: What do you think of Eva?

Hope that this brief post will change your view about her and her life.

Cheers

 

[fifilafiloche]

Lucas,

I m not a hunter so dont worry, i m not going to "shoot" anybody here or anywhere else

I m always open to learn, so if you convince me, i ll change my understanding of history.

I never understood why people regard prostitution negatively. I watch these ladies with sympathy, for their ability to sacrifice themselves for their family. In my mouth, this would be more a compliment

Now regarding Evita Peron, since i don t know her personally, i can only listen to what others have to say. I met a lot of argentines who are convinced she could only climb social ladders by using her feminity, since this is how it worked most commonly at that time in a rigid machist society with no social mobility. I hear you, convinced of the contrary. But since there is no clear evidence on both sides, i can t have a clear opinion.

If this was a myth, i would feel a bit sorry tho, because that legend gives a lot of hope to those girls working hard to feed their family. They feel somewhat represented in Argentine s history thanks to Eva Peron, and deserve it because they ARE part of argentine s history.

So, if Evita never had to go thru that sacrifice, it would make her less heroic to my eyes. She remains tho a very romantic character, for her efforts to change the argentine society, her early death and the mysteries around her burrial.

So, back to the topic, is Hollywood s influence on Evita Peron s global image a valid reason to hate North Americans?

 

[mini]

Lucas,

I m not a hunter so dont worry, i m not going to "shoot" anybody here or anywhere else

I m always open to learn, so if you convince me, i ll change my understanding of history.

I never understood why people regard prostitution negatively. I watch these ladies with sympathy, for their ability to sacrifice themselves for their family. In my mouth, this would be more a compliment

Now regarding Evita Peron, since i don t know her personally, i can only listen to what others have to say. I met a lot of argentines who are convinced she could only climb social ladders by using her feminity, since this is how it worked most commonly at that time in a rigid machist society with no social mobility. I hear you, convinced of the contrary. But since there is no clear evidence on both sides, i can t have a clear opinion.

If this was a myth, i would feel a bit sorry tho, because that legend gives a lot of hope to those girls working hard to feed their family. They feel somewhat represented in Argentine s history thanks to Eva Peron, and deserve it because they ARE part of argentine s history.

So, if Evita never had to go thru that sacrifice, it would make her less heroic to my eyes. She remains tho a very romantic character, for her efforts to change the argentine society, her early death and the mysteries around her burrial.

So, back to the topic, is Hollywood s influence on Evita Peron s global image a valid reason to hate North Americans?

1. For a woman to "use her feminity" (as you say) to marry well or climb the social ladder is not the the same a prostitution (as you imply). It is generally men who are against powerful women who start calling them whores & prostitutes to try to bring them down. I imagine you wouldn't be surprised that this would happen in a macho society with a woman as controversial as Eva Peron.

2. Evita was written by two Brits well before the Hollywood movie was made. It was an extremely popular musical. I imagine they had their own bias and most people don't rely on musicals as their source of reliable historical facts. (at least I hope not)

The musical was based on a book by anti-peronists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evita_(musical)#Historical_accuracy_of_the_story

 

[Lucas]

Now regarding Evita Peron, since i don t know her personally, i can only listen to what others have to say. I met a lot of argentines who are convinced she could only climb social ladders by using her feminity, since this is how it worked most commonly at that time in a rigid machist society with no social mobility. I hear you, convinced of the contrary. But since there is no clear evidence on both sides, i can t have a clear opinion.

On that point resides your main problem, you're hearing the same voices on one hear only and do not listening the voices of the other hear because there is none, therefore your conclusions are biased by ignorance, please hear some older voices from outside the Recolecta/Palermo/Belgrano circle to balance your opinion and have a clear view.

On the subject of prostitution we all know it's here to stay as it was for a million years no doubt about that, but we can't separate this called "profession" from exploitation of human beings by others unscrupulous and low life individuals who submit and exploit young woman, man and children to this inhuman low trade of human flesh, I'm not a puritanical or righteous individual but I can't accept this as one of the good things in life, I also understand there's an universal necessity that have to be fulfilled for someone somehow but the tragedy that all this carries on each individual and families it's appalling and should be condemned.

So, back to the topic, is Hollywood s influence on Evita Peron s global image a valid reason to hate North Americans?

Nothing to do with Americans except by the movie by Madonna in that case it should fall with the English and the Webber/LLoyd musical for staging such script infamies over this women life.
So there's nothing to do with hating anyone by this light matter subject but the misinformation spreading by such powerful multimedia coverage is frustrating, nocive and harmful to foment the understanding between different cultures and societies.

 

[fifilafiloche]

A few remarks on the style.

Mini, you shouldn t state that anybody "implies", because, by definition, you can never be sure about things that are the result of your own interpretation. At least, a softening word like "may be" would make more sense, since it leaves some room for doubt.

Lucas, just like Mini, your tone is too caricaturing. Prostitution can indeed be separated from exploitation of human beings because there is not one form of prostitution, but different forms : free willed and forced. Amalgamating everything doesnt give much credit to your arguments and can be understood as the result of ignorance, a word that you seem to enjoy.

On the content itself.

The use of "them" for prostitutes, as if they were of a different species, is, imho, a nonsense. They are us. We are them. Who can honestly claim that in his genealogy there is absolutely no blank "unknown father" title? I can t, i just need to go up 2 generations to remind me this reality. I am, you are, we are all bastards, "hijos de putas" to a certain degree...This is all the more true for people of this continent (north and south), colonised by mercenaries, adventurers, gold diggers of BOTH sexes. At least, Australia didn t forget its history, by legalising prostitution, they are coherent with their streamline of british convicts and prostitutes sent throughout the commonwealth to defend her Majesty s empire.

Please, take off that mask of pseudo respectability and remember we are all made of the same human paste, with different lucks.

 

[mini]

A few remarks on the style.

Mini, you shouldn t state that anybody "implies", because, by definition, you can never be sure about things that are the result of your own interpretation. At least, a softening word like "may be" would make more sense, since it leaves some room for doubt.

Why? I can use whatever I please. I said imply and I meant imply.

Now if you want an English lesson, when you say "I digress from you" you probably really mean that you disagree with the opinion stated by the person you are responding to. "Digress" means to change the subject. Perhaps, "disagree" or "differ" would be a better choice.

Lucas, just like Mini, your tone is too caricaturing.

I did not "caricturize" anything.

 

[steveinbsas]

Perhaps mini inferred something she thought fifi implied...

 

[fifilafiloche]

Mini, i liked the term you used for feminity before you changed it : felinity...this is a labsus that tells a lot about what you thought i "implied"

Here we go again with english lessons to compensate a lack of valid arguments.

So, if might answer on the content rather than the style, here is a clearer answer :

In a standard bisexual world, women are attracted by males for their masculinity, men by women for their feminity. Ying by Yang, Yang by Ying.

Power, force, charisma are traditional masculine features.
Beauty, sensuality, softness are traditional feminine features.

Powerful and charismatic men are naturally attractive for the opposite sex. This is why so many politicians are "caught" into extramatrimonial affairs with younger and beautiful women. I placed caught between quotation marks because what is not acceptable in some societies is regarded as natural in others. Mitterand had extramatrimonial affairs with lots of actresses, one of them gave him a child, and nobody got shocked about it in France. This is culturally regarded as the domain of private life. In the US, Kennedy was known as a womanizer, but he stays a legend in most US citizens memories. At the turn of the millenium in the US, what was regarded as acceptable, even valorizing for an influent man, became a sin with the development of neo conservatism (remember the Lewinsky affair).

Eva Peron used her feminity/felinity to become the lover and then the wife of a charismatic man and achieve her goals. It s very fine for me, in the logic of life and history, life goes on as usual...