How is Argentina coping?

[jblaze5779]

BA, Cordoba, Mendoza, Bariloche, I hear the same from all of them.

Ah yes, from any of the bigger cities.

 

[HAL29]

Im guessing Bariloche is really struggling no tourism must mean a lot of people out of work.

 

[semigoodlookin]

Umm....I can think of worse places to be. Weather is good...food prices are great assuming you are a dollar person....you can walk around and bike and police don't bother you. Nothing is open except restaurant takeout and delivery. Plenty of taxis in B.A. A few businesses are open like hardware stores. Again...I can think of worse places. (Everyone wears a mask or shield or both)

Weather is good - Yes
Food prices are great - Yes, again for dollar users. However, there's such a lack of supply of many brands/products that someone coming from another country would take for granted. It is something someone looking to move here should know.
You can walk around and bike and police don't bother you - This depends as there are stories of this not being the case. Still, unless the OP is coming from a country where police do not let citizens walk and bike around then how is this even a positive? This is just normal. "Hey folks, come to Argentina. You can walk and bike around without getting bothered by the police". They should put that on brouchures.
Nothing is open - This is not a good thing.
Plenty of taxis - Yes and combined with Uber and remises you should never be waiting/looking for a ride for long. That said, I've never been to a major capital city that does not have plenty of taxis, minicabs, or Uber.
A few business are open - Again, this is not a good thing unless all the businesses are open.

Sure, there are worse places but what does that even mean? Someone who is thinking about moving to any country should not make their decision based on whether there are worse places. Syria is not on my list of destinations even if there are worse places.

And I am not disagreeing that Argentina is not a decent bet, especially if you earn a non-peso income. If you come here with regular access to a dollar/pound/euro income, Argentina is going to be a nice place to live. My list would have included weather, very cheap rent, access to many excellent places to eat and drink at the fraction of the cost of Europe/US, very affordable utility bills, vibrant social scene if that's what you want, cheap to travel within the city (bus or taxi/Uber). Most these things are available, even during the pandemic with the odd exception and restrictions will ease eventually.

I think for the foresseable future, anyone coming to Argentina with no external income will find it hard. Well, just as hard as the locals who don't have the luck some of us have of being able to largely ride out the economic storm that's coming.

 

[on the brink]

Talked yesterday to a friend in Roanoke, Virginia, who's aghast at what's going on in the US. She says people are getting conflicting messages on the pandemic: one version from Trump and the White House, another from State authorities, and yet another from the medical establishment. People are confused by these contradictory messages, so there is little or no use of masks, and many cafes and restaurants are open. Only those showing signs of illness get the COVID test, which takes five full days to show results.

So, it seems Argentina is doing comparatively well: reasonably concerted messages from national and local authorities, widespread use of face masks, restaurants and cafes closed in most of the country, and a two-hour COVID test.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Caribbean Cool]

Weather is good - Yes
Food prices are great - Yes, again for dollar users. However, there's such a lack of supply of many brands/products that someone coming from another country would take for granted. It is something someone looking to move here should know.
You can walk around and bike and police don't bother you - This depends as there are stories of this not being the case. Still, unless the OP is coming from a country where police do not let citizens walk and bike around then how is this even a positive? This is just normal. "Hey folks, come to Argentina. You can walk and bike around without getting bothered by the police". They should put that on brouchures.
Nothing is open - This is not a good thing.
Plenty of taxis - Yes and combined with Uber and remises you should never be waiting/looking for a ride for long. That said, I've never been to a major capital city that does not have plenty of taxis, minicabs, or Uber.
A few business are open - Again, this is not a good thing unless all the businesses are open.

Sure, there are worse places but what does that even mean? Someone who is thinking about moving to any country should not make their decision based on whether there are worse places. Syria is not on my list of destinations even if there are worse places.

And I am not disagreeing that Argentina is not a decent bet, especially if you earn a non-peso income. If you come here with regular access to a dollar/pound/euro income, Argentina is going to be a nice place to live. My list would have included weather, very cheap rent, access to many excellent places to eat and drink at the fraction of the cost of Europe/US, very affordable utility bills, vibrant social scene if that's what you want, cheap to travel within the city (bus or taxi/Uber). Most these things are available, even during the pandemic with the odd exception and restrictions will ease eventually.

I think for the foresseable future, anyone coming to Argentina with no external income will find it hard. Well, just as hard as the locals who don't have the luck some of us have of being able to largely ride out the economic storm that's coming.

The original post was a question about Argentina...B.A. ....in regards to the quarantine. So your comparison with ....Moving? No. Syria...I have to think about that one.

 

[Rich One]

The earlier world heroes for their pandemic policies, are declaring Lockdowns , Israel has lockdown on weekends, Barcelona undergoing outbreak, etc...

Here in Capital they claim AF has saved millions of lives with his Pandemic Policies ..?
That the infections have reached a Plateau...Not true!
A Chief Epidemiologist named Lopez was asked, last night, the infection cases will go up, or go down or stay steady. His reply, ALL THREE !! LOL
All Agree that the peak will be md-August...!

 

[jeff1234]

The earlier world heroes for their pandemic policies, are declaring Lockdowns , Israel has lockdown on weekends, Barcelona undergoing outbreak, etc...

Here in Capital they claim AF has saved millions of lives with his Pandemic Policies ..?
That the infections have reached a Plateau...Not true!
A Chief Epidemiologist named Lopez was asked, last night, the infection cases will go up, or go down or stay steady. His reply, ALL THREE !! LOL
All Agree that the peak will be md-August...!

Folks, in case you haven't noticed, we are on our own. Covid will keep hunting for victims until it decides to leave us alone.

No politician or talking head has any idea what to do or what will happen next.

500 years after the black plague, 100 years after the Spanish Flu our best defense is to wear a mask and hide indoors.

The only certaintly is that every politician will claim victory.

 

[antipodean]

Like everything in Argentina, even a pandemic becomes political.

I can't see this ending well for Albie... after trying for months to be a superhero, this afternoon he is expected to announce a new wave flexibilization of the quarantine. Despite the fact that we are in the worst moment in terms of new cases, deaths and ICU occupation - but the official message of course is that we are stronger than yesterday. But in reality:

• The government has put itself at the heart of the health crisis and the economic crisis with a "present state" - there is no backing out now
  
  
• Argentina is now in the Top 20 hall of shame for Coronavirus, and moving up the charts by the day, cases will soon skyrocket and the health system will be put to the test as more an more people are touched by the virus
  
  
• People have simply had enough and will struggle to continue with quarantine measures. The anguish is real after (one of?) the world's longest and most strictest lockdown and now we run the risk of perceiving all the sacrifice having been made in vain
  
  
• The economy is wrecked, there is no denying that we are on the cusp of the worst crisis the country has ever seen. Even people from the lower-middle / workings classes have been forced to depend on soup kitchens and feel left without a future for the first time in their lives
  
  
• Insecurity is rising, while Albie and his team of sociologists "releasing" thousands of criminals to "home detention" who then reoffend
  
  
• Business and investor confidence has been hugely damaged with the storms around Tchint, LATAM, Vincintin and now with MercadoLibre. The perception is a government that is anti-business (which ultimately means anti-jobs)
  
  
• Society is polarised. The president has alienated himself from so many different groups of people and damaged any hope of trust through his divisive tactics over the last 6 months. He even has polarisation within his own party where he has become the latest target
  
  
• Inflation and monetary supply issues which need no introduction
  
  
• Consumer confidence is rock bottom yet the economic policy depends on consumption
  
  
• Debt discussions have not been resolved adding a further layer of uncertainty
  
  
• Tax revenues have evaporated
  
  
• Indebtedness has grown exponentially in household (4 in 5 households are now indebted) and business sectors
  
  
• Perceptions of impunity are aggravated with high profile cases like Boudou, Baez, Guiterrez and a forced disapearance at the hands of Provincia Police while during the quarantine many of the political class were out having parties, making the most of their 100% salaries, while the government is preoccupied with pushing through Judicial reform at a time of extreme economic and social crisis
  
  
• Media freedom and freedom of expression is under threat with intimidation of journalists and irresponsible statements by some members of his government desiring press censorship

Quite frankly you can only "blame" others for so long before people stop listening and tell you to shut up and get things fixed or worse still, you become the problem.

 

[Alpinista]

Like everything in Argentina, even a pandemic becomes political.

I can't see this ending well for Albie... after trying for months to be a superhero, this afternoon he is expected to announce a new wave flexibilization of the quarantine. Despite the fact that we are in the worst moment in terms of new cases, deaths and ICU occupation - but the official message of course is that we are stronger than yesterday. But in reality:

• The government has put itself at the heart of the health crisis and the economic crisis with a "present state" - there is no backing out now
  
  
• Argentina is now in the Top 20 hall of shame for Coronavirus, and moving up the charts by the day, cases will soon skyrocket and the health system will be put to the test as more an more people are touched by the virus
  
  
• People have simply had enough and will struggle to continue with quarantine measures. The anguish is real after (one of?) the world's longest and most strictest lockdown and now we run the risk of perceiving all the sacrifice having been made in vain
  
  
• The economy is wrecked, there is no denying that we are on the cusp of the worst crisis the country has ever seen. Even people from the lower-middle / workings classes have been forced to depend on soup kitchens and feel left without a future for the first time in their lives
  
  
• Insecurity is rising, while Albie and his team of sociologists "releasing" thousands of criminals to "home detention" who then reoffend
  
  
• Business and investor confidence has been hugely damaged with the storms around Tchint, LATAM, Vincintin and now with MercadoLibre. The perception is a government that is anti-business (which ultimately means anti-jobs)
  
  
• Society is polarised. The president has alienated himself from so many different groups of people and damaged any hope of trust through his divisive tactics over the last 6 months. He even has polarisation within his own party where he has become the latest target
  
  
• Inflation and monetary supply issues which need no introduction
  
  
• Consumer confidence is rock bottom yet the economic policy depends on consumption
  
  
• Debt discussions have not been resolved adding a further layer of uncertainty
  
  
• Tax revenues have evaporated
  
  
• Indebtedness has grown exponentially in household (4 in 5 households are now indebted) and business sectors
  
  
• Perceptions of impunity are aggravated with high profile cases like Boudou, Baez, Guiterrez and a forced disapearance at the hands of Provincia Police while during the quarantine many of the political class were out having parties, making the most of their 100% salaries, while the government is preoccupied with pushing through Judicial reform at a time of extreme economic and social crisis
  
  
• Media freedom and freedom of expression is under threat with intimidation of journalists and irresponsible statements by some members of his government desiring press censorship

Quite frankly you can only "blame" others for so long before people stop listening and tell you to shut up and get things fixed or worse still, you become the problem.

Antipodean: as always spot on!

A lot of the problems are certainly “home made” by the current government. Though given the economic crisis over the last years, the Covid situation was then simply unbearable. I believe Macri must be in a way content that he didnt win the election. (Imagine also the unrest and protests if Macri were still in charge and had done exactly the same things as AF).

 

[EL_TIGRE_de_Tigre]

Like everything in Argentina, even a pandemic becomes political.

I can't see this ending well for Albie... after trying for months to be a superhero, this afternoon he is expected to announce a new wave flexibilization of the quarantine. Despite the fact that we are in the worst moment in terms of new cases, deaths and ICU occupation - but the official message of course is that we are stronger than yesterday. But in reality:

• The government has put itself at the heart of the health crisis and the economic crisis with a "present state" - there is no backing out now
  
  
• Argentina is now in the Top 20 hall of shame for Coronavirus, and moving up the charts by the day, cases will soon skyrocket and the health system will be put to the test as more an more people are touched by the virus
  
  
• People have simply had enough and will struggle to continue with quarantine measures. The anguish is real after (one of?) the world's longest and most strictest lockdown and now we run the risk of perceiving all the sacrifice having been made in vain
  
  
• The economy is wrecked, there is no denying that we are on the cusp of the worst crisis the country has ever seen. Even people from the lower-middle / workings classes have been forced to depend on soup kitchens and feel left without a future for the first time in their lives
  
  
• Insecurity is rising, while Albie and his team of sociologists "releasing" thousands of criminals to "home detention" who then reoffend
  
  
• Business and investor confidence has been hugely damaged with the storms around Tchint, LATAM, Vincintin and now with MercadoLibre. The perception is a government that is anti-business (which ultimately means anti-jobs)
  
  
• Society is polarised. The president has alienated himself from so many different groups of people and damaged any hope of trust through his divisive tactics over the last 6 months. He even has polarisation within his own party where he has become the latest target
  
  
• Inflation and monetary supply issues which need no introduction
  
  
• Consumer confidence is rock bottom yet the economic policy depends on consumption
  
  
• Debt discussions have not been resolved adding a further layer of uncertainty
  
  
• Tax revenues have evaporated
  
  
• Indebtedness has grown exponentially in household (4 in 5 households are now indebted) and business sectors
  
  
• Perceptions of impunity are aggravated with high profile cases like Boudou, Baez, Guiterrez and a forced disapearance at the hands of Provincia Police while during the quarantine many of the political class were out having parties, making the most of their 100% salaries, while the government is preoccupied with pushing through Judicial reform at a time of extreme economic and social crisis
  
  
• Media freedom and freedom of expression is under threat with intimidation of journalists and irresponsible statements by some members of his government desiring press censorship

Quite frankly you can only "blame" others for so long before people stop listening and tell you to shut up and get things fixed or worse still, you become the problem.

antipodean, what a very complete post, I can't think of anything to add and there is nothing I would remove.

This is a very big mess. I don't want to be perceived as a broken record because I have already said it a few times, but I really think this goes hand in hand with what you stated: Once borders open, the people who can will be exiting Argentina en masse. There is going to be a lost generation in this country. Even if all the right things were to be done starting today (And I have no idea what the right things are or would be becasue the mess is so huge with so many moving parts???) it would still take 5 to 10 years to right the ship. But given Argentina's past record, this mess will linger for a generation. And I am very sad for that, because a lot of wonderful people do not deserve to pay the penalty for a few.