Ignorance or bliss?

[SaraSara]

I understand, Bajocero, but what does the US have to do with the current Arg. economic situation? Or with the absurd concept that inflation affects only the middle and upper classes? If anything, they are the ones with enough reserves to ride it out.

There was a whole thread about the government's attitude towards inflation a while ago. First came blank denial: there is NO inflation in Argentina. Then came a very creative series of euphemisms issued to disguise it, like calling it "price adjustments", "price realignments", and stuff like that. Finally, when even the made-up INDEC's figures reflected increased price levels, the government was forced to admit that there is, in fact inflation.

However, it turns out that this Argentine inflation is a new and very discriminating animal which miraculously spares the lower classes and affects only the rich. How convenient...!

Frankly, if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

 

[gouchobob]

The ridiculous Economy Minister Amado Boudou says "inflation only affects the mid and upper class".

Trade Secretary Moreno says 2010 will experience only a 10/11% increase and that the Government economic mouthpiece Indec has the "The one" real way of measuring inflation (not the World wide standard).

Really, are the Argentinos y Argentinas (CFK) that ignorant?? Or are they just living in a state of Government propaganda bliss??

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/50013

Any country with these idiots in office have reason to be very scared.

They aren't idiots and they certainly know what they are saying is nonsense. They are trying to paint as rosy a picture as possible in setting the stage for next year's elections. Actually I don't see how this strategy will work as their assertions about the rate of inflation are so absurd that nobody believes them. If I were running things I would admit the obvious but tout the growth rate, and tell people inflation will be tamed next. I am announcing my candidacy early next year.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

- The economy isn't growing at anywhere near 10% a year and never has been. From '03 - '06, it was close to .08%. In '07, that dropped to 7%, '08 to 5% and in '09, the economy contracted about -2.8%.

You admit that the INDEC figures are a lie. But hey, it saves Argentina money so it's okay for the gov't to lie! But hey, sucks to be a lot of employees whose raises are tied to the INDEC. Sorry, it's 10% so no more money for you.

It makes no point to argue about how much argentinian economy is growing meanwhile the strongest economies are falling down. We have no crisis, that´s the point. We are growing a littles less? of course, heeeeeelloooooooooo, the world is in a huge crisis and this affects tourism, the export of good, etc.

So, whom should I listed? an economist who is a looser who can´t deal with a crisis or an economist who is a winner who is running a succesful economy during a world wide crisis?

The money that the goverment is saving is at Banco Central. The big goal of the K is that there are savings. It may sound weird but it is a big deal here. On 2001 the country was on bankruptcy.

Inflation is the collateral cost of this economy model: you grow but you get some inflation.

The cost of the neoliberal economy school is crisis and depresion. Sorry, nothing is perfect. And I am not speculating, it´s a fact that it works this way in this country. I mentioned 2 big crisis that happened here regarding to using the neoliberal economy school.

And these asserts has nothing to do with "conspiracy theories", I mean that the neoliberal economy school doesn´t work, the world wide crises is related to this economy shool. You know, when a theory doesn´´t work, this is bad theory and must be abandoned.The big issue relation economy is that this is not a science, it is doctrine and it is related to your believes about politics.

So, I think that the US crisis is just beggining. If they continue on the same path they are going to fall down deeper until they change the theory they are using. Eistein used to say, you cannot solve a problem using the same mental state that created it.

Regarding to lies, didn´t former president Bush lie about the massive destruction weapons? So, politicians lies as a way of living. I expect that a priest doesn´t lie, but a politician? Come on!

Indec employed are a few group of people with no representation. Whom represent them? The opposition probably.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

. If I were running things I would admit the obvious but tout the growth rate, and tell people inflation will be tamed next. I am announcing my candidacy early next year.

We have a saying "lie to me, lie to me nice that I like it"....I won´t vote you, jajajaja.

 

[citygirl]

Bangs head against desk.

The economy here IS not growing. You stated it was growing 10% a year. I pointed out you're wrong. Now you don't want to argue about it. Agreed, no point in arguing - the facts are what they are.

Inflation is 20+ percent. The government says it's not. The government also says no one is affected by it. Again, just blatantly incorrect.

Whether GWB lied about WMDS is the most irrelevant point ever given we're discussing the economy of Argentina.

Sigh... I give up. Everything is perfect, the government has a well-thought out plan to deal with inflation. Wait, it doesn't need a well-thought out plan because it doesn't exist. At all. Anyone who says the opposite is wrong, reality be damned. And if you can't ignore it, just blame someone else. It's those damn neo-cons again.

 

[earlyretirement]

Definitely things aren't growing as fast or nice as the government would like you to believe. Granted other countries are having their own issues/problems but here in Buenos Aires it's very obvious to see massive amounts of businesses are closing and going out of business. Just walk around Recoleta alone and you can see tons of kiosko's, corner stores, storefronts that are all going out of business. Some very quickly after they opened. You can't keep up with 25%-30% inflation, forced salary increases, etc and expect to successfully have a business.

I predict you will see more and more businesses shuttering in the next 2 years here. It's an almost impossible atmosphere to run a company here if you want to operate in "white". Even in black many of these places are shutting down and that trend will probably continue.

 

[gouchobob]

Bangs head against desk.

The economy here IS not growing. You stated it was growing 10% a year. I pointed out you're wrong. Now you don't want to argue about it. Agreed, no point in arguing - the facts are what they are.

Inflation is 20+ percent. The government says it's not. The government also says no one is affected by it. Again, just blatantly incorrect.

Whether GWB lied about WMDS is the most irrelevant point ever given we're discussing the economy of Argentina.

Sigh... I give up. Everything is perfect, the government has a well-thought out plan to deal with inflation. Wait, it doesn't need a well-thought out plan because it doesn't exist. At all. Anyone who says the opposite is wrong, reality be damned. And if you can't ignore it, just blame someone else. It's those damn neo-cons again.

I agree with your points. The economy of Argentina is being driven by external factors i.e. China and Brazil. When growth in those countries slow as they almost certainly will at some point I'm afraid that the Argentine economy will be exposed as an uncompetitive, overtaxed, over controlled(by government), and under invested in. We really need to look beyond the current situation and say what's next. If you do this you quickly come to the conclusion that the cupboard looks pretty bare. There is some hope now that policies will change that will pull Argentina back from the brink but that remains to be seen. Right now the closest economic model to Argentina in South America is Venezuela who's economy under Hugo is slowing imploding.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I understand, Bajocero, but what does the US have to do with the current Arg. economic situation?

I mentiones the issues of the US economy because there was a reply regarding well educated economist against this "bunch of idiots that are ruling argentinian economy". Perhaps the "well educated economist" are the bunch of idiots.

Or with the absurd concept that inflation affects only the middle and upper classes? If anything, they are the ones with enough reserves to ride it out.

In fact, this is true. Low class is getting a lot of help from the goverment. Middle and upper classes don´t, so they are feeling more the raise of prices. In fact, why do you think we have inflation? they are printing money to pays the raise of salaries for the goverment employes, cientist, school teachers, university teachers, they are giving jubilación to a new 1.000.000 people, they are giving a plus for having children that they only get if children go to school, there are many other ways of subsidies.

Did you know that university teachers use to get 50 pesos a month? UBA profesors used to teach as a way to pay back for the high quality free education. I teached for free for 7 years at UBA.

Cientist were working for peanuts, now they are getting a decent salary.

There were 1.000.000 people with no retirement insurance. Now they are receiving about 800 pesos a month.

Asignacion mensual por hijo is a programm related to send children to school. Their parent receive 180 pesos extra per month. If you have 5 childrens it is about 900. If they have a handicaped child they get 720 pesos. This means something for poor people, Remember that poor people go to the Central Market to buy food, prices are very low there, specialy when they are closing.
http://www.anses.gob.ar/aaff_hijo/hijo.pdf

This is why we have inflation. No social assistance means no inflation but also means more criminality. At the end is only a matter of consciousness on how you spend money.

Frankly, if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

Inflation is not a big deal, we are used to it. But after hiper inflacion of 1989 peoples freak out aout just hearing about inflation, that`s why they use euphemism.

Regards

 

[SaraSara]

It's useless to argue with someone who consider a 20% inflation rate "some inflation".

27%+ raises are what the unions got, and that's the real rate of inflation in Argentina.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Sigh... I give up. Everything is perfect, the government has a well-thought out plan to deal with inflation. Wait, it doesn't need a well-thought out plan because it doesn't exist. At all. Anyone who says the opposite is wrong, reality be damned. And if you can't ignore it, just blame someone else. It's those damn neo-cons again.

Nothing is perfects but it works. You are saying that they have no plan, that they are erratic, but the fact is that this is working you like it or not.

I didn´t continue arguing with you about how much the economy is growing because it makes no point. It is growing, simple like this. You make asserts with no evidence, It makes no point to deal with this and I have no time to do a proper research.

I mentioned the neos because we have already tried the "right path" and it didn´t worked out. So, right now South america is saying no thank you to those magic solutions and is using it´s own way. And it is working meanwhile the worls is in crisis. So, who is wrong?