Ignorance or bliss?

Argentina isn´t a normal country. In fact, at the economy university they teach economy and study separated japan and Argentina. If you try to use standar economy rules in this country you will fail.
Regards
 
Bajo_cero2 said:
Argentina isn´t a normal country.


Absolutely, that is something that I totally agree with you on Bajo. You're right. It's not a "normal" country. There are plenty of positive things about Argentina so I'm not trying to portray it as being only negative or totally crazy. There are many beautiful things about the country and it's citizens but I'm afraid being "normal"wouldn't apply as a good adjective to describe the country.

I think it's good to have everyone's perspective on these things. The world would be a really dull place if we all thought the same way about life, love, politics and Argentina! :)
 
fifs2 said:
I`m not sure that I would agree that we who think that denying that 20%+ inflation are green...

Well, I try to make you understand that 20% of inflation is not a crisis in this country, is average.

Argentina is very difficult to understand, I will try to resume it.

Argentina as a country was invented by the 80`s generation. They were a rich and very well educated generation of politician who belong to those families who were here since the conquest.

They designed this country to become a power, they wanted to build a Paris in South America.


They imported machine guns and they defeated the Indians by 1880. It is called “la conquista del desierto”. Since then, they were able to harvest one of the 3 most rich plains in the world. So for the next 20 years Argentina had the biggest economy growth in history. My grandfather´s father decided to come here instead of the US because this country was wealthier.

They realized that the country was empty, only 800.000 people. So they enacted law 346 expecting to bring 80 million people. They brought 10.000.000 in 20 years.

They enacted law Saenz Peña that gave the vote to all men. They expected to win elections, they were defeated by an unknown immigrant`s son. Since then they never won an election. Since then there was a cold war.

The 80`s generation economy doctrine is about to produce grain and cows and to export them and to import manufactured goods. Politically, they expected to have an educated elite to rule the country (their self of course) and peasants.

But the new government was a middle class one. They created public free and non religious universities.

On the 40`s Peron has a project related to develop heavy industry and regarding to give rights and welth to the hard hats.

So the last 60 years debate about the Argentinean economy is regarding the “farmer`s economy” vsus the industry economy.

And they were fighting each other. One rule for 4 years on the farmer´s wayT(a dictator) but the industrials (peronistas) were sabotaging them until they create a crisis and make them fall. After that, the farmers sabotage them with food prices arising them like nowadays until they make them fall. And so on.

K believes that the only way to deal with inflation and those cycles welth-crisis is to develop the industry and she is doing it. Even the farmers are having an excellent time, the industry is having it too.

So, now we are ready for the every 10 years crisis but there is no crisis, so perhaps she is right. The industry production is record, the farmer are doing very well too.

So, why I assert that Argentina is so different? This is an undeveloped country with a lot of natural resources, so it is possible to grow at high rates. 10% is not a high rate in Argentinean statics.

But inflation has a lot to do with politics. The Argentinian farmers high society families lost elections on 1916. They were responsible of all the dictatorship governments as far as you are not an Argentinian high class family is you don´t have a bishop and a general among your relatives.

The fact is that the farmers have a lot of power. If you take a perspective look about the prices arise, they rise is artificial and it started with the farmer´s lock out against the government. Inflation was the tool farmers used to make a president fall. Strikes was the tool that peronistas (the union) used to make dictatorship and some other presidents to fall.

So, inflation is complex.

During the 90´s the neos rule and it was nice for a whiile but they created a mega crisis.

So, this is the first time that farmers and industry are growing, sounds good. But this is argentina, a country that can grow too fast, a country politically immature, a young country that is having the same crisis that Europe had in the late XIX century.

And argentinian politics don´t fit neither on the standar paterns. The right is corrupted, they believe they own the country. The center is useless. De la Rua was the best example. The left isn´t serious. Kirshnerismo doesn´t fit in any of those categories.

It´s complex.

You are green about inflation, but we are green as a country.

Regards
 
Bajo cero, I totally disagree with your opinions, but congratulate you on your rational way of presenting them.

It is interesting, as well as healthy, to hear a point of view so different from my own.
 
It´s complex.

You are green about inflation, but we are green as a country.

Regards[/quote]


Being Irish green is my native color..my family however are Northern loyalists and to call them anything other than orange is grossly offensive!;)
 
Bajo_cero2 said:
why do you think we have inflation? they are printing money to pays the raise of salaries for the goverment employes, cientist, school teachers, university teachers, they are giving jubilación to a new 1.000.000 people,.....

That sounds like a really good idea.

Bajo_cero2 said:
Inflation is not a big deal, we are used to it. But after hiper inflacion of 1989 peoples freak out aout just hearing about inflation, that`s why they use euphemism.

Are you joking? What's the point of giving all this salary increase and give money away if the money isn't worth anything in 4 years?
 
The definition for insanity is something along the lines… "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Inflation/devaluation......................
 
SaraSara said:
Bajo cero, I totally disagree with your opinions, but congratulate you on your rational way of presenting them.

It is interesting, as well as healthy, to hear a point of view so different from my own.

I totally agree with Sara on this. That's what I love about public forums is hearing other people's intelligent opinions on matters. I often enjoy hearing opinions other than my own. It's what truly makes a great forum allowing people to give their side and opinions and point of view. No matter if it differs from your own.

I think as long as everyone is respectful with one another, there is room for everyone's views on things and it can even be a real learning experience for all.

The point is no one likes to think they are wrong. No one. I remember back before the stock market crashed I presented very clearly how and why the financial sector in the USA was going to crash. So many people that it wouldn't happen and things would keep going up. Those that short sold the financial sector in 2007/2008 made insane amounts of money. Insane. I know lots of people lost money but they never thought they could be wrong and they closed their eyes pretending all but be well. This including some really big financial firms. Guys like John Paulson and other visionary investors that knew the score made billions and billions of dollars. I have personal clients that made 8 or 9 figures short selling the financial sector as I advised.

So it's sometimes good to listen to others opinions on things. There are some great posts on this forum. Some I disagree with but think they are great nonetheless.
 
The point is no one likes to think they are wrong. No one. I remember back before the stock market crashed I presented very clearly how and why the financial sector in the USA was going to crash. So many people that it wouldn't happen and things would keep going up. Those that short sold the financial sector in 2007/2008 made insane amounts of money. Insane. I know lots of people lost money but they never thought they could be wrong and they closed their eyes pretending all but be well. This including some really big financial firms. Guys like John Paulson and other visionary investors that knew the score made billions and billions of dollars. I have personal clients that made 8 or 9 figures short selling the financial sector as I advised.


Totally agree. I lived in Dublin through all of the celtic tiger years up to 2002 and at times felt I was part of a circus, with crazy money being spent on eating out, foreign holidays 4X4, brand clothing, summer houses etc...by that sector of the population benefiting from the boom - mostly IT, real estate and financial services - whilst "ordinary" people I knew who worked as firemen or in the public service continued grinding away for the same salary without the inflated bonues, stock options and struggled to live, never mind buy property. That 12+ years of 6-11% growth with <5% inflation was touted as the economic model to follow with the boom being attributed to state-driven economic development, solid relations between government and unions, increased women in the workforce, long term investment in education, a low corporation tax rate making us so attractive to foreign investment...and now Ireland`s slow demise as one of the pigs is the news of the day. Here I am living in another bubble, different country without half of the advantages that made Ireland successful for that period of time and enjoying the best of the country (the people) whilst cautiously cynical that all of this growth is making Argentina an economic powerhouse for the long term.
I`m not a doomsady person screaming the sky is falling - just a realist who knows that all good parties have to end...so best to stash the really good quality booze in a safe place for the next one!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Pensador Expat Life 14
Brit_In_BA Expat Life 65
nlaruccia Expat Life 29
Back
Top